Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Guest]

11 hours ago, m williamson said:

The DUP,  Sinn Fein and every other political party in Northern Ireland is against this bill .  The Irish government is against the bill,  it has been criticised by victims representative organisations, church leaders, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and Westminster's Joint Committee on Human Rights.

All of them want all terrorist crimes from whatever source to continue to be investigated. The only party involved that wants to see no further investigation into what happened during the Troubles is the British government.

 

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-centre/press-releases/20230626-good-friday-committee-calls-on-the-uk-government-to-withdraw-the-northern-ireland-troubles-legacy-and-reconciliation-bill/

 

Germany convicted a 97 year old former Nazi 77 years after the end of WW2. The British government wants  to draw a veil over a conflict that ended 25 years ago. Why would they wish to do that?

 

Do you understand now?  

The bill should be dropped if there is so much opposition to it.

 

At the very least,  the government should explain clearly, the reasons for the bill to ensure it's not being used simply as a cover up for actions which should not have taken place.

 

[Magilla]

Rishi Sunak to sign UK-India trade deal without binding worker or environment pledges:

https://www.politico.eu/article/rishi-sunak-narendra-modi-uk-india-trade-deal-worker-environment-pledges/

Angry firms and trade unions fear being undercut and say they were shut out of Britain’s biggest trade talks

 

Indian products set to undercut UK one's...

 

Farming subsidies trigger row over future of British countryside:

https://www.ft.com/content/93b5c4b5-a94f-4796-b5fb-6f56757828ff

 

Farmers shafted...

 

 

New Brexit border checks to cost business £320mn a year:

https://www.ft.com/content/015e1f25-0725-49f1-9a7d-bf9ec0dc4678

 

The usual, lots of extra expense for no benefit whatsoever...

 

 

Fortunately, the direction of travel has been set, and is only going to increase in pace...

 

After Brexit, Britain and Europe embrace ever-closer union

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-uk-relations-rishi-sunak-brexit/

 

(In every case, for a bit more than we paid before... obvs 🙄)

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Magilla said:

Rishi Sunak to sign UK-India trade deal without binding worker or environment pledges:

https://www.politico.eu/article/rishi-sunak-narendra-modi-uk-india-trade-deal-worker-environment-pledges/

Angry firms and trade unions fear being undercut and say they were shut out of Britain’s biggest trade talks

 

Indian products set to undercut UK one's...

 

Farming subsidies trigger row over future of British countryside:

https://www.ft.com/content/93b5c4b5-a94f-4796-b5fb-6f56757828ff

 

Farmers shafted...

 

 

New Brexit border checks to cost business £320mn a year:

https://www.ft.com/content/015e1f25-0725-49f1-9a7d-bf9ec0dc4678

 

The usual, lots of extra expense for no benefit whatsoever...

 

 

Fortunately, the direction of travel has been set, and is only going to increase in pace...

 

After Brexit, Britain and Europe embrace ever-closer union

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-uk-relations-rishi-sunak-brexit/

 

(In every case, for a bit more than we paid before... obvs 🙄)

We all know that this was the main reason behind Brexit,  cleverly hidden behind the pretence of freeing the UK.

It was to free government from having to comply with sensible environment laws and to free big business so they can carry on exploiting and make more money.

 

[harvey19]

10 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

The bill should be dropped if there is so much opposition to it.

 

At the very least,  the government should explain clearly, the reasons for the bill to ensure it's not being used simply as a cover up for actions which should not have taken place.

 

Terrorist organisations will not help in investigations.

Terrorist organisations do not keep records.

The army keep records.

There is no evidence of state collusion with terrorists.

A tiny percentage of security personnel in the north and south may have colluded with terrorists.

Many people want justice for their loved ones but sadly after so many years it will not happen.

The bill is an attempt to draw a line under the troubles and cease the continued attempts at division and sectarianism.

The GFA should have done this but did not.

A book worth reading is Tony Blair and the IRA.

 

 

10 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

We all know that this was the main reason behind Brexit,  cleverly hidden behind the pretence of freeing the UK.

It was to free government from having to comply with sensible environment laws and to free big business so they can carry on exploiting and make more money.

 

Cheap clothing was happily bought from foreign countries before Brexit.

People here still buy products from countries causing the most pollution.

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by harvey19

[L00b]

53 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

This has probably been mentioned before, but I have just discovered I will be charged to use my EE mobile in Spain. £2.29 per day in fact.

I accept these are private companies making business decisions and therefore nothing to do with the government, or the Leave campaign. But I seem to remember being assured, by Leavers, that would not happen ?

It was always going to happen, once UK mobile corporates were relieved from the EU trade rules-based obligation to implement and maintain free roaming intra-EU. 

 

We are now a good few years past proving, beyond any reasonable doubt, that any promises or assurances by Leavers in 2016 were, at best and to put it charitably, uninformed drivel.
 

Moreover, and after all, any trade/economic counter-arguments made by the Remain side of the debate on the basis of facts and logic were, both before and after the referendum, steadfastly shutdown by Leave-quoting useful idiots arguing that Brexit was about sovereignty, not the economy, and that taking the economic hit was worth achieving Brexit.
 

No point linking outside SF, there must be hundreds, if not low thousands, of such posts over the years, in the original ‘How will you vote’ Brexit-themed thread, and then the various ‘Consequences’ threads since.

 

example: 

 

For the sake of your blood pressure, maybe better get used to consequences like the loss of free roaming already. You’re still only at the very beginning of the ‘finding out’ phase.

Edited October 1, 2023 by L00b

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Terrorist organisations will not help in investigations.

Terrorist organisations do not keep records.

The army keep records.

There is no evidence of state collusion with terrorists.

A tiny percentage of security personnel in the north and south may have colluded with terrorists.

The bill is an attempt to draw a line under the troubles and cease the continued attempts at division.

The GFA should have done this but did not.

A book worth reading is Tony Blair and the IRA.

 

 

Cheap clothing was happily bought from foreign countries before Brexit.

People here still buy products from countries causing the most pollution.

 

Your top 4 lines make no difference  at all to what I said.

The bill is an attempt at a cover up and no one wants it except the British government   (Surprise surprise ).

For Christs sake,  give the book a rest.  Everyone will point to a book which supports their theory.  Anything which mentions the name Tony Blair is enough to put me off reading for life.

 

To pass a bill which everyone in Ireland is against is a sure way of NOT drawing a line under the troubles.

It is just one more attempt to put the interests of the British government above those of the country concerned.

 

 

Cheap clothing may have been bought before Brexit but I fail to see what difference that makes.  We want a real choice.

We buy goods from those countries because, to a large degree,  they are the only ones on sale.

If you try to buy 90% of items today and look for some that don't say made in China,  you are going to be disappointed.

I would sooner keep a British workman in a job rather than one in China or India, and yes, I'm willing to pay.

 

 

[cuttsie]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

This has probably been mentioned before, but I have just discovered I will be charged to use my EE mobile in Spain. £2.29 per day in fact.

I accept these are private companies making business decisions and therefore nothing to do with the government, or the Leave campaign. But I seem to remember being assured, by Leavers, that would not happen ?

just get a cheap burner pay as you go .

[harvey19]

27 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Your top 4 lines make no difference  at all to what I said.

The bill is an attempt at a cover up and no one wants it except the British government   (Surprise surprise ).

For Christs sake,  give the book a rest.  Everyone will point to a book which supports their theory.  Anything which mentions the name Tony Blair is enough to put me off reading for life.

 

To pass a bill which everyone in Ireland is against is a sure way of NOT drawing a line under the troubles.

It is just one more attempt to put the interests of the British government above those of the country concerned.

 

 

Cheap clothing may have been bought before Brexit but I fail to see what difference that makes.  We want a real choice.

We buy goods from those countries because, to a large degree,  they are the only ones on sale.

If you try to buy 90% of items today and look for some that don't say made in China,  you are going to be disappointed.

I would sooner keep a British workman in a job rather than one in China or India, and yes, I'm willing to pay.

 

 

The book is factual. Why not try to learn something.

Think more carefully about what the bill will achieve.

My first lines were very relevant. Think about the consequences of them also.

I am sure I do not need to spoon feed the implications of them.

( I edited my post after you had quoted it )

 

Do you buy the more expensive product if there is a cheaper foreign one available ?

Do you buy foreign products made in a country causing pollution ?

 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by harvey19

[m williamson]

1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

Terrorist organisations will not help in investigations.

Terrorist organisations do not keep records.

The army keep records.

There is no evidence of state collusion with terrorists.

A tiny percentage of security personnel in the north and south may have colluded with terrorists.

 

 

Is that so?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/08/evidence-police-in-belfast-colluded-with-loyalists-in-the-troubles-report-finds

 

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2020-01-15-explainer-british-collusion-in-northern-irelands-dirty-war/#:~:text=Files from the early 1970s,were going to loyalist paramilitaries.

 

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03063968221134026

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/the-udr-a-potent-weapon-in-britain-s-dirty-war-in-northern-ireland-1.4846097

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/margaret-thatcher-state-collusion-and-the-murder-of-pat-finucane/

 

You didn't bother to look too hard did you? Surprising for someone who goes on and on about reading a book in order to inform us. 

 

Heard of the murder of the solicitor Pat Finucane in his own home  in front of his wife and children? Read the bottom link which records that Brandon Lewis the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland acknowledged that there had been state collusion but despite that there would be no inquiry.

He did apologise to the Finucane family though, so that's alright isn't it?

 

This Bill is designed for the specific purpose of covering up the state murder of civilians, as simple as that.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

The book is factual. Why not try to learn something.

Think more carefully about what the bill will achieve.

My first lines were very relevant. Think about the consequences of them also.

I am sure I do not need to spoon feed the implications of them.

( I edited my post after you had quoted it )

 

Do you buy the more expensive product if there is a cheaper foreign one available ?

Do you buy foreign products made in a country causing pollution ?

 

 

If I decide to educate myself further, I'm sure I can manage to do so without the help of a SF poster.

I've already thought carefully about what the bill will achieve.  It will achieve more fudge, pretence and cover up to add to that which has taken place for the last 60 years.

I thought about your first 4 lines before I dismissed them but I will now add ( 4th line ),  that state collusion with terrorists DID take place,  and it seems,  everybody knows that but you.

I don't need spoon feeding anything from you because, although I don't pretend to be an expert on Northern Ireland,  I'm quite sure there is nothing that you can teach me.

When discussing that situation, you always work from the same premise as our government   -   that it is ours and we will decide everything.

I work from the other one   -   that it was never ours and the people of the entire Island of Ireland should decide everything.   Yes, that creates problems   -   problems which should have been faced years ago.

 

Yes,  I very much DO indeed,  buy more expensive products when there are cheaper options.  I very rarely ever go for the cheapest option,  no matter what I buy.

I  HAVE TO BUY from polluting counties because there is very often no alternative.

Some of my keyboards are from Japanese manufacturers and used to be made in Japan    -    they are now actually made in China so what can I do about that ?

Being forced to do something through lack of alternative choice doesn't implicate me in any wrongdoing and doesn't detract from my beliefs.

If I had a genuine choice,  I would never again buy anything which was manufactured in China.  Others can do as they please in exactly the same way.