Are We Heading For A Recession Like In The 30s?

[Lockjaw]

18 hours ago, Tomm06 said:

How are you going to spend their money again if you won't allow them to open and trade to make their, sorry 'our' money. 

Well, I assume that once they've spent it all somebody else will be able to spend it.

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Lockjaw
Posted twice. Soz.

[Anna B]

9 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Just a few paragraphs into the guardian article and I'm already confused.

 

In the attention grabbing headline and first sentence we have lots of reference to the word 'evade' which of course is an illegal act.  But then in literally the next paragraph there is lots of whinging about how only the super rich can't access offshore bank accounts and afford clever accountants and lawyers who can advise and how to do things.  That sounds to me like tax avoidance, which for all the morality arguments, is technically legal.  

 

After all it will be highly unusual for a qualified and regulated legal advisor to be deliberately setting up their clients on a known illegal tax evasion scheme.   Add on the fact that said Panama Papers complete with confidential and privileged legal information was thrust into the public domain by why what source exactly?  I think it's pretty obvious it wasn't done by a nice request letter and signed form of authority from the the data owner.  Best not be too premature to be on the moral high ground with that one.

 

Now whilst of course I have not read the sourced academic white paper in any detail I would at least expect a supposedly journalistic outlet such as the guardian to get the basic facts clear.  

 

So my question is which is it?   Is it a fantastic piece of investigative reporting highlighting lots of illegal activity which of course should be forward into the relevant authorities.......   Or is it a general whinge about how it's all so unfair and immoral and selfish and greedy, despite in reality being perfectly legal to those who have enough assets and enough knowledge.

Morals counts. They are the bedrock of a civilized society which we all should live by.  People ignore  them at their peril.

 

If the law can't apply them, then sooner or later the little people will. This is how revolutions start.  We have already had the gross immorality of the banking crisis, unresolved and unpunished. We are now nearing a breaking point, this may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Tensions are simmering and showing themselves in strange and curious ways.

 

It's  a recipe for civil unrest.

 

[apelike]

39 minutes ago, Anna B said:

It's  a recipe for civil unrest.

It may be but any civil unrest will be put down very swiftly by those in charge. 

[tinfoilhat]

30 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Morals counts. They are the bedrock of a civilized society which we all should live by.  People ignore  them at their peril.

 

If the law can't apply them, then sooner or later the little people will. This is how revolutions start.  We have already had the gross immorality of the banking crisis, unresolved and unpunished. We are now nearing a breaking point, this may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Tensions are simmering and showing themselves in strange and curious ways.

 

It's  a recipe for civil unrest.

 

Normally I'd disagree but the numbers of unhappy people are increasing.

 

1) A-Levels - lots of unhappy people, that number will increase when state school GCSE results are down graded.

 

2) families of victims of covid. Did the government do enough.

 

3) people who have had to dash back from holiday because of quarantine because we don't have a track and trace system or anything like it for returning travellers (other countries do)

 

4) racists. Yep, they arent happy either because of the failure of our government to invade France or drown children or something. Odd though that the Mail says it's easy for migrants to cross the channel in a dinghy but hard for holiday makers.

 

Then there's the financial cliff in October. Will be interesting.

[MarcyC]

On 24/05/2020 at 11:31, Arnold_Lane said:

You don’t account for the exchange rate.  If you print money you devalue that currency so it’s worth less in other markets.  
 

If that worked, it wouldn’t just be dictators that did it but every country all the time.

Governments don't need to print money to obtain more wealth.. simply have their banks put an extra figure anywhere before the decimal point.  Job done. 

Of course they also need to stop making their current account deficit information available to anyone with an internet connection

[ECCOnoob]

On 15/08/2020 at 14:54, tinfoilhat said:

Normally I'd disagree but the numbers of unhappy people are increasing.

 

1) A-Levels - lots of unhappy people, that number will increase when state school GCSE results are down graded.

 

2) families of victims of covid. Did the government do enough.

 

3) people who have had to dash back from holiday because of quarantine because we don't have a track and trace system or anything like it for returning travellers (other countries do)

 

4) racists. Yep, they arent happy either because of the failure of our government to invade France or drown children or something. Odd though that the Mail says it's easy for migrants to cross the channel in a dinghy but hard for holiday makers.

 

Then there's the financial cliff in October. Will be interesting.

There's always two sides to every story and some people might be perfectly entitled to question what exactly these 'people' have to be aggrieved about.

 

1.  I'm sure lots of people are aggrieved that their results are not as expected but it could be arguable that if teachers weren't overestimating the grade predictions and manipulating the stats to try and make their schools look good there might have been more realistic expectations.  At the end of the day if they didn't actually do the exam there is no proof one way or another what result they would have had.  It is therefore logical that some form of averaging or formula had to be applied and inevitable that the result of the formula wasn't going to satisfy everyone.   

 

2. Of course there is lots of criticism and questions about whether the government did enough but the same can be applied to whether the 'people' did enough too.  There are plenty of examples of the masses flouting the rules when it suited them, failing to take precautions seriously and in some cases completely disregarding them and creating their own mass gatherings. Hardly blameless.

 

3.  Is there any reasonable grievance for people having to return back from their holidays early?  In the middle of a pandemic surely people choosing to go abroad should be prepared to accept the risks. After all the virus hasn't gone away and is not going to for some significant time. The government was very clear that lockdowns and quarantines could be brought in with little notice at any time and therefore it is an occupational hazard.  If the government didn't bring a quarantine everyone would still be moaning so they can't win no matter what they do

 

4.  Yes lots of examples that the government and public authorities are institutionally racist which should of course be brought to attention. However isn't it time that we have a long hard look at ourselves and realised that there are mass numbers of the 'people' who ARE racist.  Always have been and always will be.  It even goes as far that we choose to vote in completely blatant racist politicians, support white supremacist and nationalistic political organisations, spend our money on racist right wing publications and sit there in bars and coffee houses chatting away about those pesky immigrants coming over here ruining our land and giggling at racist jokes about those funny old foreigners.   One could argue it is the 'people' who are the problem and they just don't want to admit it

 

As for the so-called financial cliff - is that really something to be getting angry about?   After all the world was screaming for governments to take action and lock down. They did so.  Now it must be blindingly obvious to anyone with a pea-sized brain that such would have a catastrophic effect on the economy so where was that self responsibility.  Where was the 'people' doing the sensible obvious things like cutting back, preparing for that rainy day and taking all precautions one can.   

 

Anger and protest is all well and good but it neefs to have a point .  Simply shouting screaming we don't like it and it's all your fault simply doesn't cut it.   

[tinfoilhat]

11 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

There's always two sides to every story and some people might be perfectly entitled to question what exactly these 'people' have to be aggrieved about.

 

1.  I'm sure lots of people are aggrieved that their results are not as expected but it could be arguable that if teachers weren't overestimating the grade predictions and manipulating the stats to try and make their schools look good there might have been more realistic expectations.  At the end of the day if they didn't actually do the exam there is no proof one way or another what result they would have had.  It is therefore logical that some form of averaging or formula had to be applied and inevitable that the result of the formula wasn't going to satisfy everyone.   

 

2. Of course there is lots of criticism and questions about whether the government did enough but the same can be applied to whether the 'people' did enough too.  There are plenty of examples of the masses flouting the rules when it suited them, failing to take precautions seriously and in some cases completely disregarding them and creating their own mass gatherings. Hardly blameless.

 

3.  Is there any reasonable grievance for people having to return back from their holidays early?  In the middle of a pandemic surely people choosing to go abroad should be prepared to accept the risks. After all the virus hasn't gone away and is not going to for some significant time. The government was very clear that lockdowns and quarantines could be brought in with little notice at any time and therefore it is an occupational hazard.  If the government didn't bring a quarantine everyone would still be moaning so they can't win no matter what they do

 

4.  Yes lots of examples that the government and public authorities are institutionally racist which should of course be brought to attention. However isn't it time that we have a long hard look at ourselves and realised that there are mass numbers of the 'people' who ARE racist.  Always have been and always will be.  It even goes as far that we choose to vote in completely blatant racist politicians, support white supremacist and nationalistic political organisations, spend our money on racist right wing publications and sit there in bars and coffee houses chatting away about those pesky immigrants coming over here ruining our land and giggling at racist jokes about those funny old foreigners.   One could argue it is the 'people' who are the problem and they just don't want to admit it

 

As for the so-called financial cliff - is that really something to be getting angry about?   After all the world was screaming for governments to take action and lock down. They did so.  Now it must be blindingly obvious to anyone with a pea-sized brain that such would have a catastrophic effect on the economy so where was that self responsibility.  Where was the 'people' doing the sensible obvious things like cutting back, preparing for that rainy day and taking all precautions one can.   

 

Anger and protest is all well and good but it neefs to have a point .  Simply shouting screaming we don't like it and it's all your fault simply doesn't cut it.   

1) Eton, if memory serves, had the best results ever under the algorithm because historically they do well. Crap schools, regardless of how good a couple of students had been, we’re going to get marked down massively. Keeps the plebs in place.

 

2) An awful lot of joe public are stupid and thoughtless, this shouldn’t be a surprise to the government. If rules had been worded better that would have helped. 20000 extra police would have been useful too.

 

3) All a bit pointless with out a decent track and trace. Again, look at the Germans. That said, they have travel bans in place as well, and I’m not knocking the government for doing it as such, just doing it badly. And, regardless of the right and wrongs of it, if you’ve had your holiday cancelled or you have to quarantine for 2 weeks without pay, you’re going to be cross. It doesn’t make you right

 

4) In amongst the gob-frothers at Trafalgar Square yesterday were  the New British Union of fascists. That’s not going to help anyone. I don’t know what Boris plans to do but I’ll bet diamonds he’ll take at least two goes at it.

 

Lots and lots of unhappy people. And we haven’t had a no deal scenario yet, or a second Peak and further lock downs. Shouting “it’s not fair” won’t work. The government blaming anyone and everyone else - supported by most of the media - will  help (the government) and that’s what’s happening.

[Arnold_Lane]

17 hours ago, MarcyC said:

Governments don't need to print money to obtain more wealth.. simply have their banks put an extra figure anywhere before the decimal point.  Job done. 

Of course they also need to stop making their current account deficit information available to anyone with an internet connection

Yeah ok.  If you say so.

[MarcyC]

2 hours ago, Arnold_Lane said:

Yeah ok.  If you say so.

It would only work if they kept it to themselves

because of all the parasite currency dealers and lenders  would get their knickers in a twist and undermine it all by going public

[Anna B]

On 15/08/2020 at 14:51, apelike said:

It may be but any civil unrest will be put down very swiftly by those in charge. 

Really? Look to the unrest in America and Belarus. Do we really want that sort of scenario on the streets of Britain?

Far better surely that the authorities listen to the people, and act to remedy the discontent before it gets to that stage.