Uk 2021 Census

[L00b]

Given the averred links between HMG and Peter Thiel's Palantir (US data mining co. given full access to NHS Covid19 patient data), not to mention Dom Cummings' multiple AI companies-owning chums, you shouldn't worry too much about putting any information down on the Census form: chances are, HMG and consorts, foreign and domestic, already have that data anyway 

 

Besides, given the very numerous online platforms in which most anyone fills in basic personal information for access and use, and modern data mining capabilities, chances are -again- that any information retention, withdrawal, falsification and other privacy-seeking approaches would be redundant.

 

I'm still getting the occasional ambulance-chasing chatbot cold-calling my mobile phone every now and then, asking me if I've received all the compo I was/am entitled to after a car crash over 5 years ago (timeline IIRC, it was a long time ago)... That is, after moving countries 2,5 years ago, and that's calling my professional phone supplied by my employer in the foreign country, the (UK) number of which doesn't appear anywhere online (company website or email footer) and which I have never registered on any other website or online resource, than the company's bank (for 2FA purposes with the company issue credit card). Just tells you how powerful that data mining 'in the ether' must be.

[Thirsty Relic]

There are moves afoot to force us all to fill this years form in online.  Many people are not online and may be forced/pushed/recommended to do it online.  I can see pensioners being forced to go to council offices/libraries and put personal and private information onto the internet that they would rather not.  Yes, I know that manually filled forms are then read onto the computer (presumably OCR), but would a pensioner want to have to tell a stranger a mass of their private info so they can input it online for them?

Yes, by law we've got to get the stuff online (and hopefully anonymized) for planning purposes, but the US census data was made available by hackers 2 or 3 years ago, (in addition to many other organisations suffering similar problems recently).  All I see is yet another IT failure about to happen.

 

We can only hope that stringent control measures are put in place this time and peoples names and addresses are stripped off as soon as possible.  Then the planners have aggregated data to work with, and we are all are at least partly protected from misuse of the data.

 

 

[Baron99]

At the end of the day, if anyone believes any organisation, including local & central government, is not holding their information securely or suspects they are misusing the information, they have the right to lodge a complaint with the Information Commissioner's Office. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/data-protection/make-a-complaint

[apelike]

7 hours ago, Thirsty Relic said:

Yes, by law we've got to get the stuff online (and hopefully anonymized) for planning purposes,.....

But is that really true anymore about planning purposes? It may have been in the past but I'm not sure about it anymore. This government and governments in the past 50 years despite having the available  data have not really acted on it. We know from that data that the population has increased and we need a big overhaul of our infrastructure as most of the infrastructure is over capacity and about to break. Does that data also show we need HS2 or Trident or many of the other expenses that get approved over the former?

[Longcol]

9 minutes ago, apelike said:

But is that really true anymore about planning purposes? It may have been in the past but I'm not sure about it anymore. This government and governments in the past 50 years despite having the available  data have not really acted on it. We know from that data that the population has increased and we need a big overhaul of our infrastructure as most of the infrastructure is over capacity and about to break. Does that data also show we need HS2 or Trident or many of the other expenses that get approved over the former?

Why on earth would census data show need for defence capabilities like Trident? 

 

Does census data show the army need weapons?

[apelike]

26 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Why on earth would census data show need for defence capabilities like Trident? 

 

Does census data show the army need weapons?

Thank you as you have just confirmed what I have written in pointing out that major decisions are made regardless of what the census data may or may not show.

[saywhatnow]

9 hours ago, L00b said:

Given the averred links between HMG and Peter Thiel's Palantir (US data mining co. given full access to NHS Covid19 patient data), not to mention Dom Cummings' multiple AI companies-owning chums, you shouldn't worry too much about putting any information down on the Census form: chances are, HMG and consorts, foreign and domestic, already have that data anyway 

 

Besides, given the very numerous online platforms in which most anyone fills in basic personal information for access and use, and modern data mining capabilities, chances are -again- that any information retention, withdrawal, falsification and other privacy-seeking approaches would be redundant.

 

I'm still getting the occasional ambulance-chasing chatbot cold-calling my mobile phone every now and then, asking me if I've received all the compo I was/am entitled to after a car crash over 5 years ago (timeline IIRC, it was a long time ago)... That is, after moving countries 2,5 years ago, and that's calling my professional phone supplied by my employer in the foreign country, the (UK) number of which doesn't appear anywhere online (company website or email footer) and which I have never registered on any other website or online resource, than the company's bank (for 2FA purposes with the company issue credit card). Just tells you how powerful that data mining 'in the ether' must be.

I get those same calls but I've never had a car accident, they're just chancing it. Unless of course they know the specific details of your accident? 

 

I quite enjoy telling the caller about my amnesia and seeing how long it takes them to catch on.

 

Regarding them already having that data, isn't that why they are looking towards not needing to do the census in the same way in the future? 

Edited July 28, 2020 by saywhatnow

[L00b]

9 hours ago, saywhatnow said:

I get those same calls but I've never had a car accident, they're just chancing it. Unless of course they know the specific details of your accident? 

 

I quite enjoy telling the caller about my amnesia and seeing how long it takes them to catch on.

 

Regarding them already having that data, isn't that why they are looking towards not needing to do the census in the same way in the future? 

They know enough specifics, my take on it is that the original company sold the data way-back-when, and it's been dead-cat-bouncing between claim companies selling it on to each other ever since.

 

I'd never claimed anything with any company (wasn't injured at all, no other cost than written-off car), I just claimed for the car with the original insurance company. That was in UK in 2015 (IIRC). I moved out of the UK in 2018.

 

The disquieting aspect, is that obviously someone has, at some stage, got hold of my new mobile number (UK phone and number, never used in UK, sent new in 2018 to my continental work address ) and associated it with my name, then associated that with the old accident data. Can't think how else I'd be getting those calls.

 

It may be how and why HMG considers future census exercises to be redundant. But if so, then the fact that it is generated, owned and used by the private sector, rather makes all the data privacy around census data completely redundant, don't you think?

[saywhatnow]

4 hours ago, L00b said:

They know enough specifics, my take on it is that the original company sold the data way-back-when, and it's been dead-cat-bouncing between claim companies selling it on to each other ever since.

 

I'd never claimed anything with any company (wasn't injured at all, no other cost than written-off car), I just claimed for the car with the original insurance company. That was in UK in 2015 (IIRC). I moved out of the UK in 2018.

 

The disquieting aspect, is that obviously someone has, at some stage, got hold of my new mobile number (UK phone and number, never used in UK, sent new in 2018 to my continental work address ) and associated it with my name, then associated that with the old accident data. Can't think how else I'd be getting those calls.

 

It may be how and why HMG considers future census exercises to be redundant. But if so, then the fact that it is generated, owned and used by the private sector, rather makes all the data privacy around census data completely redundant, don't you think?

Yes, that's very interesting with the information about your car accident and someone having to match details etc. to get your new contact details. 

 

I had thought (sounds like I have done so wrongly) that the idea to gain future census style info was by matching such things as council tax records and national insurance to determine the basics - where you live, people in household, household income etc. Data that I've always thought local and national govt would have been the data controller. And if it did go down that route a statement added to privacy notices saying something along the lines of 'The data you provide us will be used to create future Census information for the purpose of....' 

[saywhatnow]

And just reading about palantir I was surprised to read '.. NHS blog post has since removed reference to pseudonymisation of data'. I would have no problem with numbers, severity of case, location etc being analysed but given the reported history of their work, I would not be happy for any identifiable data to be in their hands if they can't be trusted to use it in accordance with data privacy laws. 

 

(Don't think I'd picked up on that side of it scrolling the posts last night, my mistake)