Re Writing Of History

[the_bloke]

Fun Fact: Karl Marx was a massive racist.

 

Will the protesters smash up his memorial in London too?

[Halibut]

Just now, lazarus said:

You said it yourself, hundreds of years ago, not now, my own ancestors were treated exactly the same, they were murdered, starved and denied but I don’t expect the things the “ Black Lives Matter” people are demanding.

Who were your ancestors? If 'your people' were being killed by police officers on a regular basis, and systematically discriminated against on a massive scale, would you not be inclined to protest?

[muddycoffee]

2 minutes ago, Halibut said:

Churchill managed both very successfully wouldn't you say? 

The problem here is that the great majority of people and especially leaders had a very different view of ethnic origin that we do today.

I know one of my grandparents had a very old fashioned and fairly offensive viewpoint in the 1970s and 80s which became far less bad before they died in the 1990s

 

A few years ago in Hungary, I visited the communist statue park. This was an out of town museum in the open, out of town full of communist era statues that used to be in prominent places in the region. There was information and pictures explaining what they meant to the people at the time and where they stood. Some were plain and others elaborate and vast. It was informative and enjoyable. There were also souvenirs and a visitor centre.

 

Instead of destroying or storing old statues out of view, we should consider this kind of thing, making a feature out of them and giving students and interested people a place to see and study them.

[the_bloke]

Erasing the past by banning films, books, hiding art and removing status does as much to save white people from embarrassment as it does to remove the offence from black people.

Edited June 11, 2020 by the_bloke

[alchresearch]

34 minutes ago, Branyy said:

There certainly (and unfortunately) are people that would welcome raising a statue of Hitler. So I'm asking again - where to draw the line? And who's going to decide?

I'm very surprised to see Harold Wilson on the list

 

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/fury-over-claim-harold-wilson-18386693

 

Dig deep enough and you can probably find fault with just about anything or anyone.

[RollingJ]

@the_blokeYou cannot erase the past - you can learn from it, make use of it, base your opinions on it, but you cannot erase it.

 

In any case, as has been asked before, who is the final arbiter on the subject - those to the left, those to the right, or those that just don't like it?

 

I'm not arguing with you, btw - I agree with you.

[Halibut]

13 minutes ago, muddycoffee said:

The problem here is that the great majority of people and especially leaders had a very different view of ethnic origin that we do today.

I know one of my grandparents had a very old fashioned and fairly offensive viewpoint in the 1970s and 80s which became far less bad before they died in the 1990s

 

A few years ago in Hungary, I visited the communist statue park. This was an out of town museum in the open, out of town full of communist era statues that used to be in prominent places in the region. There was information and pictures explaining what they meant to the people at the time and where they stood. Some were plain and others elaborate and vast. It was informative and enjoyable. There were also souvenirs and a visitor centre.

 

Instead of destroying or storing old statues out of view, we should consider this kind of thing, making a feature out of them and giving students and interested people a place to see and study them.

I think that's a grand idea.

[Pettytom]

19 minutes ago, Rockers rule said:

But we were all brought up with respect being an important part of that upbringing.

 

Maybe you should use your respectful upbringing to consider the effect that glorifying slave traders has on many UK citizens.

 

If you were truly brought up to be respectful, you would listen carefully to their views.

 

Someone else asked about where to draw the line. That’s difficult, but I’d say that bona fide slave traders were definitely on the wrong side of it. Where monarchs, prime ministers  and explorers sit is a little more tricky.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Pettytom

[alchresearch]

Going back to Baden Powell. Its interesting to see David Lammy speaking highly of the organisation:

 

Quote

In the film, Hislop interviews David Lammy, the Culture Minister who became a Cub Scout at seven. Lammy said the experience had a positive effect on him and others: 'I remember a particular week in which the whole purpose was to knock on people's doors to say can we wash your car, in the Cub uniform. I suspect Baden-Powell had a Gordon Brown sense of prudence and hard work and of thrift and of duty.'

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/apr/22/davidsmith.theobserver

[altus]

1 hour ago, PRESLEY said:

We should see statues of bad people every day to inspire us all not to do the same as they did,  so history doesn't repeat its self,  we see documentries of Hitler the purpose being to learn how terrible the Monster he  was,   if we dont see we dont learn and prevent this ever happening again. 

All those documentaries on Hitler provide context by detailing the bad things he did. The statue to Colston described him as "virtuous and wise" and didn't describe the bad things he did. That's common to almost all other statues - they are erected to celebrate people not provide a critique of their actions. Without context, statues can't inspire anyone to not do what they did.