onewheeldave Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, RJRB said: You are determined to avoid the subject in question. Its about the suitability of using this stretch of road for this experiment. Its a major arterial road which is never going to be used by commuting or leisure cyclists in any number. I'm prioritising the things I consider really important- getting more cycles on the roads, getting a lot less cars/vans/lorries, saving the planets ecology, helping public health, trying to prevent the next generations of children growing up in a dying environment etc. I appreciate what you're saying here "which is never going to be used by commuting or leisure cyclists in any number." however, I've addressed it several times. That road is not safe for cyclists, and it's not perceived as safe for cyclists, and that, IMO, accounts for there not being many cyclists using it. IMO, it is a fantastic route for cyclists now it has a proper, car free path. Is this the best road for this path/experiment? I don't know- I suspect that whichever road had been chosen we'd have a similar amount of motor drivers up in arms for different reasons. Why don't you suggest some options where you think a dedicated car-free cycle path could have been put? 1 minute ago, RJRB said: There’s no arguing with you if you wish to create snarled up traffic so that you can you can enjoy a leisure ride . Just beware of the emergency vehicles bearing down on you as they try to get through. That area has had snarled up traffic as long as I can remember, caused entirely by really excessive numbers of cars on the roads. As previously mentioned, making roads inconvenient for motor vehicles seems to be the only scientifically known way to cut vehicle numbers- I posted the links earlier [induced demand and car diet]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RJRB said: There’s no arguing with you if you wish to create snarled up traffic so that you can you can enjoy a leisure ride . Just beware of the emergency vehicles bearing down on you as they try to get through. That is a strawman argument though RJRB. The purpose of the journey is irrelevant. No one has more special entitlement to use the highway than another. You or I are just people trying to get around for our own personally valid reasons whether we are on foot, on a bike or in a 500hp vehicle. None of us is special enough to have special treatment beyond that which makes us safe. Edited July 9, 2020 by Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooker11 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tony said: That is a strawman argument though RJRB. The purpose of the journey is irrelevant. No one has more special entitlement to use the highway than another. You or I are just people trying to get around for our own personally valid reasons whether we are on foot, on a bike or in a 500hp vehicle. None of us is special enough to have special treatment beyond that which makes us safe. People on a leisure ride can choose to avoid that particular stretch, people who need to get to work cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarrott Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: Why don't you suggest some options where you think a dedicated car-free cycle path could have been put? How about any of the smaller roads through Kelham island? Half of them have just been blocked off to cars, so they'd be ideal. The whole point of a ring road is to encourage cars to use it and to keep them off smaller side roads and out of the city centre. By doing this, everyone who has to drive (and there are a lot of us who simply have no choice but to drive) is being pushed to drive alternative routes, down side streets, through the city centre, etc. This is specifically stopping traffic from going where we ideally want traffic to go. It's currently 13.45 on a Thursday with a large number of people still not working or travelling, and the whole area is dark red on google maps traffic view. This is going to get worse and worse. And for those people who are giving Amsterdam as an example, Amsterdam still has a substantial ring road. They haven't just closed the whole city off you know, only a few streets in the city centre. Shalesmoor is not the city centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Tony said: That is a strawman argument though RJRB. The purpose of the journey is irrelevant. No one has more special entitlement to use the highway than another. You or I are just people trying to get around for our own personally valid reasons whether we are on foot, on a bike or in a 500hp vehicle. None of us is special enough to have special treatment beyond that which makes us safe. Back to basics. This is an arterial road built to carry necessary traffic around the city. Strawman arguments are those introducing save the planet and similar subjects. I owned a bike for years,as did my two children. We had no problem in finding good routes to enjoy and get exercise. So now commuting by bike is a popular call for a vociferous,very few,given added momentum by the lockdown period and public transport fears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 24 minutes ago, Scarrott said: How about any of the smaller roads through Kelham island? Half of them have just been blocked off to cars, so they'd be ideal. That wouldn't help with congestion according to the established science [induced demand]. 20 minutes ago, RJRB said: Strawman arguments are those introducing save the planet and similar subjects. How is averting ecological collapse caused [in large part] by car congestion, a strawman in a thread addressing congestion and the cycling solution to polution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: That wouldn't help with congestion according to the established science [induced demand]. How is averting ecological collapse caused [in large part] by car congestion, a strawman in a thread addressing congestion and the cycling solution to polution? Closing one lane of a main arterial road will not save the planet. Given the amount of standing traffic it could make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Tony said: The statistics. https://www.crashmap.co.uk/Search Interesting site. So according to this site the number of pedal cycle incidents on Shalesmoor Road involving the injury of a cyclist since 2017 is 4 of which 1 was severe. How much did this fiasco cost?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest busdriver1 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 4 hours ago, onewheeldave said: If you sell your car, then either with the proceeds, or the consequent vast savings from not having to insure it, fuel it and maintain it, you could afford a very nice cycle and all the kit to go with it. How you prioritise is up to you, but, you can afford a cycle. As for your age- I'm 53 and have had 3 strokes; I've got a bike with low gears and there is not a hill in Sheffield I can't get up easily. If I'd not cycled for ages I'm sure I'd also find the prospect of a 1/4 mile ride unpleasant, but once you get into it, you may well, like me, cycle to Oughtibridge, climb Jawbone hill and cycle back, for fun. All you youngsters base your opinion on your ability. Try living my life before you judge my abilities. I have already answered your points and explained why they do not work for me. I would thank you to take the time to read and digest before getting on your high horse. 4 hours ago, onewheeldave said: So if less cars are in Sheffield and more in Rotherham/Barnsley, that's a good thing in terms of that priority. And, as Barnsley/Rotherham fill up with cars they'll also have to introduce congestion reduction measures. And yes, that means some Sheffield businesses will suffer in the short term, but, that is a lower priority than preventing the end of human civilisation and protecting public health. Sheffields population will suffer because of this enforced congestion long term. Cars that drive to a town then park produce far less emissions than several stuck in a man made congestion point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest busdriver1 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 3 hours ago, onewheeldave said: Presumably you're a climate change denier? If not, you need to rethink what you've put above. In what perspective is cash useful when the atmosphere is unbreathable and entire ecosystems have collapsed? I certainly do not deny climate change. It is a fact, so, on that vein lets stick to them eh? Fact. there are multiple forms of air pollution. Focussing on one while the others go unchecked is the biggest form of denial there is. Governments and councils are selecting the form of pollution they wish to tackle so as not to offend the industries that support the political parties. The longest term and most damaging form of air pollution is from aircraft. Where are the measures to see that reduced and the timetable for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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