Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

[MJ01]

ECCOnobb, if Poundland closes but we all live longer is that a good thing or a bad thing?

[onewheeldave]

10 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Yeah well when 'clean air' generates taxes and creates jobs and is a contributor to the economy let me know

 

Until that day comes, no matter how much you try and spin it - the city losing out on business is not a good thing.

I'd argue that if the air is too toxic to breathe, good cash flow won't make up for it.

 

Especially now it's looking like coronavirus is here to stay, and other such viruses will be occuring [incidently, in large part due to modern animal agricultural practices which are also damaging because of the absolute focus on 'good business' at the expense of health and environmental good practice] more often.

 

Because any kind of lowered lung function greatly facilitates succumbing to these infections and inevitably follows from pollution.

 

There are bigger pictures here.

 

And the more that's put into 'clean air' the more taxes and jobs will be generated. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in dream world.

 

Don't the motorists here arguing against schemes to promote 'clean air' have children? Think about what your children will have to do in a world where 'clean air' is a distant memory.

[ECCOnoob]

19 minutes ago, MJ01 said:

ECCOnobb, if Poundland closes but we all live longer is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Depends on whether people are using Poundland for their employment and income or people down the supply chain who support Poundland business operations depend on them for their employment and income and livelihood.....

 

No point living forever if you don't have money to feed and support yourselves.  

 

There has to be a balance of course. 

 

But I take umbrage with sweeping statements that somehow a loss of business is fine as long as it is in the great "green" cause.   

[ECCOnoob]

49 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

I'd argue that if the air is too toxic to breathe, good cash flow won't make up for it.

 

Especially now it's looking like coronavirus is here to stay, and other such viruses will be occuring [incidently, in large part due to modern animal agricultural practices which are also damaging because of the absolute focus on 'good business' at the expense of health and environmental good practice] more often.

 

Because any kind of lowered lung function greatly facilitates succumbing to these infections and inevitably follows from pollution.

 

There are bigger pictures here.

 

And the more that's put into 'clean air' the more taxes and jobs will be generated. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in dream world.

 

Don't the motorists here arguing against schemes to promote 'clean air' have children? Think about what your children will have to do in a world where 'clean air' is a distant memory.

As I have said before a big part of that "clean air" is down to what comes out of the back of vehicles not the specific use of them. 

 

You keep banging on about electric or alternative fuel personal  cars being just as bad to the environment exhaust fumes but bicycles are not made out of pixie farts and magic beans.  the manufacturer development and distribution of those has just as much impact on the environment as any other vehicle.

 

People have explained several times that bicycles are not a feasible option to the majority of travellers.  If there is "green" money to be invested it should be on alternative fuels and better public transport systems not taking some lazy and half assed approach at simply attacking car drivers and making their lives even more difficult.

 

No matter how many times you try to persuade me otherwise it is absolutely clear that cycling is and always will be predominantly a leisure activity.

 

The world has moved on dramatically from the turn of the century.  People are working and living bigger distances is all the time.  We are not living in twee country villages where we can pootle around on our bikes to access all the things we need.

 

Motorised transport is here to stay and the solution to the environmental issues of such pressing concern will be finding better and greener ways of powering it.  That is not pedal power.  

 

I am breathless to know your theory of why clean air is going to suddenly create all these extra jobs and taxes. I think it's you living in a dream world.

 

Yes I suspect lots of car driving posters have children. They will be children who grow older and pass their driving test and will expect the freedom to be able to get around where they need to go as far as they need in a car. They will be children who will be required to work and study and live in different places around the country or even the world because that is a modern way that globalisation is taking the economies.  Those children will not be doing it on the back of the bike.  

Edited July 16, 2020 by ECCOnoob

[cytine]

34 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

As I have said before a big part of that "clean air" is down to what comes out of the back of vehicles not the specific use of them. 

 

You keep banging on about electric or alternative fuel personal  cars being just as bad to the environment exhaust fumes but bicycles are not made out of pixie farts and magic beans.  the manufacturer development and distribution of those has just as much impact on the environment as any other vehicle.

 

People have explained several times that bicycles are not a feasible option to the majority of travellers.  If there is "green" money to be invested it should be on alternative fuels and better public transport systems not taking some lazy and half assed approach at simply attacking car drivers and making their lives even more difficult.

 

No matter how many times you try to persuade me otherwise it is absolutely clear that cycling is and always will be predominantly a leisure activity.

 

The world has moved on dramatically from the turn of the century.  People are working and living bigger distances is all the time.  We are not living in twee country villages where we can pootle around on our bikes to access all the things we need.

 

Motorised transport is here to stay and the solution to the environmental issues of such pressing concern will be finding better and greener ways of powering it.  That is not pedal power.  

 

I am breathless to know your theory of why clean air is going to suddenly create all these extra jobs and taxes. I think it's you living in a dream world.

 

Yes I suspect lots of car driving posters have children. They will be children who grow older and pass their driving test and will expect the freedom to be able to get around where they need to go as far as they need in a car. They will be children who will be required to work and study and live in different places around the country or even the world because that is a modern way that globalisation is taking the economies.  Those children will not be doing it on the back of the bike.  

WELL SAID. Motorised transport is definitely here to stay and our so called council and planners should be planning accordingly for the modern world not sending us back to the pony and trap.

[onewheeldave]

45 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

 

 

You keep banging on about electric or alternative fuel personal  cars being just as bad to the environment exhaust fumes but bicycles are not made out of pixie farts and magic beans.  the manufacturer development and distribution of those has just as much impact on the environment as any other vehicle.

 

 

The manufacturer development and distribution of a cycle does not have as much impact on the environment as that of a motor vehicle. 

48 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

 

 

People have explained several times that bicycles are not a feasible option to the majority of travellers. 

They are a feasible alternative to a lot/some of them. As car journeys continue to become more problematic, they'll be a feasible alternative for more of them, for at least some of their journeys.

50 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

 

 

No matter how many times you try to persuade me otherwise it is absolutely clear that cycling is and always will be predominantly a leisure activity.

 

 

No, in places like Amsterdam with a good cycling infrastructure cycles are used a lot for non leisure activities like getting to and from work.

[onewheeldave]

56 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

 

 

The world has moved on dramatically from the turn of the century.  People are working and living bigger distances is all the time.  

 

 

 

 

I believe that is being addressed as well, and it needs to be. Commuting huge distances is not sustainable and there are plenty of things that can be done to incentivise working closer to home and discourage working far from home [obviusly not in ALL cases, but definitely in some/many].

 

As we've seen during coronavirus, tele conferencing will increasingly remove the need to physically travel in many cases.

56 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

 

 

 

 

I am breathless to know your theory of why clean air is going to suddenly create all these extra jobs and taxes. I think it's you living in a dream world.

 

 

Because industries always arise when there is opportunity, especially when old industries are dying and innovators and workers need to apply their skills in the new ones. 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by onewheeldave

[onewheeldave]

58 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

 

 

Yes I suspect lots of car driving posters have children. They will be children who grow older and pass their driving test and will expect the freedom to be able to get around where they need to go as far as they need in a car. They will be children who will be required to work and study and live in different places around the country or even the world because that is a modern way that globalisation is taking the economies.  Those children will not be doing it on the back of the bike.  

Increasingly children are seeing what is really going on here- for example Greta Thunberg. Many are very, very stressed, to the point of mental illness as they look to the future and see blind adults who think 'business as usual' is possible. 

 

Business as usual is not possible; where our children are concerned, either we adapt, or, they die. It is that simple.

 

 

 

 

[cytine]

26 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

Increasingly children are seeing what is really going on here- for example Greta Thunberg. Many are very, very stressed, to the point of mental illness as they look to the future and see blind adults who think 'business as usual' is possible. 

 

Business as usual is not possible; where our children are concerned, either we adapt, or, they die. It is that simple.

 

 

 

 

Stress and mental illness is being caused because our children are being brainwashed in schools. My 7 year old granddaughter was sobbing and almost hysterical because we removed a few overhanging branches

from a tree.  She was crying that we would die because trees make us breathe. I can't believe that people are so gullible that they believe the rantings of a silly Swedish teenager who I believe is still at school.

The problem is there is no genuine debate on this because anyone who opposes  the current trendy view is not heard or is howled down, As I expect to be.

[onewheeldave]

29 minutes ago, cytine said:

 

 

I can't believe that people are so gullible that they believe the rantings of a silly Swedish teenager who I believe is still at school.

The problem is there is no genuine debate on this because anyone who opposes  the current trendy view is not heard or is howled down, As I expect to be.

What you're calling the 'current trendy view' is actually the scientific communty consensus. 

 

Referring to Greta Thunberg as a 'silly Swedish teenager' is known as an ad hominim attack i.e. instead of engaging with their arguments, you call them a name instead. It is against forum rules and I suspect it's a main reason you're finding it difficult to get the rational debate you seem to be longing for.

 

As for her being 'still at school', how is that relevant? It's clear to me that on issues like this many school children are considerably less blinkered, and, more intelligent than, much of the adult population.