Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

[Planner1]

8 hours ago, RJRB said:

A few posts back you argued that the project was financially beneficial to the local economy.

Now it’s just a minor cost.

However much it cost and whoever financed it,and it does come back to the taxpayers,this particular scheme was wasted money.As it would appear several other schemes up and down the country have proved to be.

 

 

Its a minor cost on the grand scale of transport schemes. Its normally a lot cheaper to put in schemes on a temporary / experimental basis to see whether they work than putting in the permanent works.  The government is encouraging local authorities to be radical and try things out on an experimental basis and it is therefore to be expected that some things will work out better than others. If you don't like how the government is spending taxpayers money, go tell them.

 

As I said previously, any funding incoming to the area and spent here is a benefit to the economy.

 

You don't like this scheme, others do. It remains to be seen whether it stays or goes.

[RJRB]

8 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Its a minor cost on the grand scale of transport schemes. Its normally a lot cheaper to put in schemes on a temporary / experimental basis to see whether they work than putting in the permanent works.  The government is encouraging local authorities to be radical and try things out on an experimental basis and it is therefore to be expected that some things will work out better than others. If you don't like how the government is spending taxpayers money, go tell them.

 

As I said previously, any funding incoming to the area and spent here is a benefit to the economy.

 

You don't like this scheme, others do. It remains to be seen whether it stays or goes.

 

I am sure that the availability of public money created a hastily convened series of meetings and the resulting brainstorming session threw up some radical ideas.

I dread to think which ones were considered too impractical to be applied.

The mystery of which individual or group suggested and sanctioned this and who had any input will continue as in reality no one is taking real responsibility.

We rely on our local government to interpret and apply national government policy and in this particular money which could have benefitted the cycling cause has been wasted.

I would suggest that the anti feeling far exceeds those that think it provides a blueprint for the future.

So it’s not just about reinstating the road to its intended purpose,but what lessons have been learnt about the possibility of segregating cyclists from other traffic.

What routes,commuter or leisure would actually be used by any number of cyclists.

If it is a fact that there has been a relatively recent surge in the popularity of cycling what is the truest analysis of the actual demand for commuter cycling as opposed to the leisure market.

I know quite a few bike owners and I have owned a few ,but all are car owners and none would wish or would be able to commute to school or their workplace on one.

I fear that no real analysis of the experiment will be carried out and further radical wastes of time will be the result.

 

 

[soopah]

On 11/08/2020 at 21:01, RJRB said:

Where to start.

Firstly I do admire your ambition for the future of world transport.

However I do find it difficult to comprehend a future without motor cars.

Perhaps cleaner methods of propulsion will continue to evolve but it will be evolution.

Then compare travelling times of any distance by cycle or other forms of motorised transport,

That is a considerable saving in time and convenience for most people most of the time.

Safe walking routes?

I think we are well served with pavements and pathways.

Cycles have a place in the scheme of things ,but the clever bit is deciding where.

I used to work in Dinnington for my sins years ago, and on occasion when the weather was nice enough, I'd cycle.

It was about 15 miles each way, and taking into account the traffic, It would take me about the same amount of time as it would to drive.

I'm in no way fit, but doing this did make me fitter and it put me in a better mood at work.  Set me off better for the day.

There's no shortage on hills for that route either, first you pedal up into Handsworth, then drop through woodhouse, then you have to climb all the way up to the A57.

I still needed a car for work, so I would either use the work van or leave my car at the office.

Some people are just not willing to embrace change or be prepared to think of a workaround.

More people should try commuting by car and then they'd realise how bad the current standard of driving is and would be in favour of a segregated roadway.
 

Edited August 14, 2020 by soopah

[RJRB]

That’s admirable and I have done similar.

How do you then carry this forward to create acceptable and usable cycle routes for the many alternative routes required.

[soopah]

For the most part, it just took a bit of planning.  Most of that route had either enough room to create a segregated space, or there was a a quieter way to go.

However, I did only do this during periods of school holidays.  I attempted once or twice outside of this time but trying to cycle through Darnall for example was atrocious.

People must realise that car usage is falling out of favour with the council and government and therefore their progress will be hindered if they continue to use them.
I'm no eco hippy, I drive an 8 seater car with a large petrol engine with usually just me in it.  However, now I'm working from home I'm either cycling to where I need to be or use my wife's little City car.

My car is relegated to sitting on the drive, and used when there are all of us going somewhere with all the various attachments kids/dog/bikes etc usually demand.

 

Public transport isn't great if you're not in an area that isn't well served by them.  And those areas won't be well served if people don't use them, and if it's not reliable or timely, people aren't going to use them.

 

Before I could drive, I used to have to catch the bus from Greystones Road, bus used to be once an hour, and frequently didn't actually turn up.
So you had to walk to Ecclesall Road with all your gear.
As soon as I had a license, I barely used a bus unless I was going out on the lash.

Edited August 14, 2020 by soopah
words

[Planner1]

2 hours ago, RJRB said:

The mystery of which individual or group suggested and sanctioned this and who had any input will continue as in reality no one is taking real responsibility.

 

Why are you over-dramatising this? There is no mystery.

 

You know very well which individual sanctioned it as it's been mentioned umpteen times on this thread and the individual concerned has featured in media releases explaining the scheme an why it was selected.

[RJRB]

We know who sanctioned it but not those who dreamt it up and the rationale behind their thinking.

Anyway its all been said and the subject of the thread has been better represented by some rather than others who prefer to discuss the wider benefits of cycling.

So enough.

[Planner1]

2 hours ago, RJRB said:

We know who sanctioned it but not those who dreamt it up and the rationale behind their thinking.

Anyway its all been said and the subject of the thread has been better represented by some rather than others who prefer to discuss the wider benefits of cycling.

So enough.

Again, not true.

 

The rationale for the scheme was stated in one of the cabinet members press releases ie providing a link between the cycle tracks on Penistone Rd and the Grey to Green project. It’s been mentioned on the thread too. 
 

There’s no need for the identities of the engineers who designed it to be known. They just do the job they are asked to. 

[RJRB]

Grey to green project

Ah yes.

Excellent idea .

Transforming redundant sections of the inner ring road to suit pedestrian and cycle routes.

Can’t argue with that.

https://sheffieldnewsroom.co.uk/news/grey_to_green_phase

Is Shalesmoor part of a redundant route? Or about to be a redundant route.

Someone got over zealous 

Edited August 14, 2020 by RJRB

[NewBiz]

What makes me want to weep is that because it's central government money it's treated as though it doesn't matter. It's this arrogant stance that  I find so disgraceful. Each and everyone of us is paying for it, end of chat.  If a white elephant/load of nonsense cost £5 it's £5 too much., and it's £5 that can't be spent on something useful.

 

If only SCC could take this on board Sheffield might ultimately be a much better place.