Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

[Igor]

1 minute ago, Planner1 said:

That scheme started in planning several years ago.

 

The Covid pandemic has presented what many people regard as a once in a lifetime opportunity to do things differently in terms of how we travel. The government has also provided funds for immediate, "emergency" measures. What are the Council supposed to do? Stick with what's been done before, or try something different?

Try something different but VIABLE without impacting so severely (negatively) on existing infrastructure & mode of travel choice/necessity for thousands!!

[Planner1]

1 hour ago, Donny B Good said:

And the answer to cyclists passing traffic lights at red whilst having no insurance is that the rest of us need to "get a grip if we suffer this ridiculous malaise"?

The remedy for cyclists who disobey signals is already in place. The police can enforce it and they do in some cases. If you want it more rigidly enforced, more often, tell them. The actual incidence of red light abuse is actually quite low and the risks involved are also quite low. I saw some mention of in London, surveys showed only 16% of cyclists disobey red lights and you'd expect that to be worse there than here.

 

As for insurance, you might be surprised how many cyclists actually do have third party liability insurance either through membership of a cycling body or via other insurance. There isn't any country that I know of which has mandatory cycle insurance. Also, most European countries operate a presumed liability system for cycling collisions ie the motorist is presumed to be at fault unless they can prove otherwise.

13 minutes ago, Igor said:

Try something different but VIABLE without impacting so severely (negatively) on existing infrastructure & mode of travel choice/necessity for thousands!!

Basically you are saying they should maintain the status quo and tinker round the edges. That's what's been happening for decades and it's proven not to work too well.

[Parkside]

3 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

The remedy for cyclists who disobey signals is already in place. The police can enforce it and they do in some cases. If you want it more rigidly enforced, more often, tell them. The actual incidence of red light abuse is actually quite low and the risks involved are also quite low. I saw some mention of in London, surveys showed only 16% of cyclists disobey red lights and you'd expect that to be worse there than here.

 

As for insurance, you might be surprised how many cyclists actually do have third party liability insurance either through membership of a cycling body or via other insurance. There isn't any country that I know of which has mandatory cycle insurance. Also, most European countries operate a presumed liability system for cycling collisions ie the motorist is presumed to be at fault unless they can prove otherwise.

Tell the police about traffic violations you are having a laugh , they do not turn up for break ins or other crimes very often , the mobile phone while driving law is the biggest joke ever , and , this use of the mobile is the biggest cause of cyclists and pedestrians getting killed and injured on a daily basis . That is the biggest reason  why cyclists and walkers need protecting from the car .

[covfeffe]

Cycling will always be a minority interest in Sheffield, it's just to hilly to be viable for most people, and apart from commuting to and from work, what do the council think people will generally be cycling, on a day to day basis, for?? 

[Igor]

15 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Basically you are saying they should maintain the status quo and tinker round the edges. That's what's been happening for decades and it's proven not to work too well.

Basically that is not what I stated!

[Baron99]

29 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

The remedy for cyclists who disobey signals is already in place. The police can enforce it and they do in some cases. If you want it more rigidly enforced, more often, tell them. The actual incidence of red light abuse is actually quite low and the risks involved are also quite low. I saw some mention of in London, surveys showed only 16% of cyclists disobey red lights and you'd expect that to be worse there than here.

 

 

Last set of figures I could find for London were from around 2017 when it's reckoned there were 180,000 cyclist.  So that's 28,800 jumping red lights, putting themselves in danger as well as having the potential for causing other road users to have an accident but more than likely scarpering before the police arrive. 

 

Yes the number is miniscule isn't it?  Hardly worth mentioning. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Baron99

[Planner1]

20 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

 

Yes the number is miniscule isn't it?  Hardly worth mentioning. 

I described the number as quite low, which it is, compared to the number who do comply with the law. As I said, the potential risks of a cyclist going through a red light is pretty low, that’s because they slow down, have a look round and carry on only if safe to do so. The risks involved when motorists contravene red lights are much more severe. 

 

The point is, If you listen to some people on here, they make out that the majority of cyclists ride irresponsibly, which is simply not true and it isn’t a major risk factor for the cyclists or others.

38 minutes ago, Igor said:

Basically that is not what I stated!

Yes you did. You were asking for Cycling interventions that don’t affect others much, which is what transport authorities have been trying to do for decades and it hasn’t produced great results. Same old interventions, same old results. Nothing significant is going to be achieved without more radical measures.

[Planner1]

49 minutes ago, covfeffe said:

Cycling will always be a minority interest in Sheffield, it's just to hilly to be viable for most people, and apart from commuting to and from work, what do the council think people will generally be cycling, on a day to day basis, for?? 

Going to the local shops, leisure facilities and for exercise, basically most trips of up to 5km. Sheffield is not too hilly. Bern in Switzerland has good levels of cycling for just one example of somewhere that isn’t exactly flat. 
 

Bikes have gears and they are low enough to get up any hill. For those who really aren’t fit enough or who don’t want to put in that level of effort, there are lots of electric bikes nowadays, which make hills an absolute breeze. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Planner1

[covfeffe]

Just now, Planner1 said:

Going to the local shops, leisure facilities and for exercise, basically most trips of up to 5km. Sheffield is not too hilly. Bern in Switzerland had good levels of cycling for just one example of somewhere that isn’t exactly flat. 
 

Bikes have gears and they are low enough to get up any hill. For those who really aren’t fit enough or who don’t want to put in that level of effort, there are lots of electric bikes nowadays, which make hills an absolute breeze. 

Whatever you say, its easier said than done believe me I've been there. 

 

Cycling is a nice leisure activity but people's general day to day activities can't be done on a bike.

 

You're only going to get away with pushing this so far; there will come a point where opposition to it will offer itself at the ballot box and people will vote accordingly. So watch it.

[Planner1]

8 minutes ago, covfeffe said:

Whatever you say, its easier said than done believe me I've been there. 

 

Cycling is a nice leisure activity but people's general day to day activities can't be done on a bike.

 

You're only going to get away with pushing this so far; there will come a point where opposition to it will offer itself at the ballot box and people will vote accordingly. So watch it.

I'm not pushing anything, I'm not a politician.

 

Promoting active travel, particularly cycling is local, regional and national government policy and is a major thrust of the way they intend to address future travel needs, air quality and health issues. All of the major political parties agree on this, so you might find some difficulty in electing someone who wants something different.

 

You are absolutely incorrect about most people's daily activities. The vast majority of people commute to one location and don't carry immense amounts of stuff with them. The vast majority of commuting trips are short and can easily be cycled. A large number of leisure or daily activities are also short trips which can be cycled.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Planner1