Coronavirus - Part Two.

[butlers]

The numbers don't really say that if you read the full article.

The expectation is covid deaths will be at 100 a day in a couple if weeks,was in radio4 this morning

[onewheeldave]

24 minutes ago, butlers said:

The numbers don't really say that if you read the full article.

The expectation is covid deaths will be at 100 a day in a couple if weeks,was in radio4 this morning

I didn't read the full article, I responded to the figures quoted in the post.

 

I don't pay much attention to 'expectations' having waitnessed the farcical computer predictions put out at the start of this, and other 'pandemics'.

 

If covid deaths do go up to 100/day, then if you read my post above [#1400] you will see that in the grand scheme of daily deaths from many other conditions, it really isn't significant. The resources being used for the lockdowns could, IMO, be more useful if applied to tackling the preventable amongst those conditions which would ultimately, overall, being down the UKs total daily death rate i.e save more lives.

Edited September 26, 2020 by onewheeldave

[Becky B]

1 minute ago, onewheeldave said:

I didn't read the full article, I responded to the figures quoted in the post.

 

I don't pay much attention to 'expectations' having waitnessed the farcical computer predictions put out at the start of this, and other 'pandemics'.

 

If covid deaths do go up to 100/day, then if you read my post above [#1400] you will see that in the grand scheme of daily deaths from many other conditions, it really isn't significant. The resources being used for the lockdowns could, IMO, be more useful if applied to tackling the preventable amongst those conditions which would ultimately, overall, being down the UKs total daily death rate i.e save more lives.

Whilst I agree with you about tackling the long term health of the nation (which is a discussion for another place, I think), we are currently trying to manage a crisis, and the resources are needed for that.  Long term changes to the general health of the nation aren't something that's going to happen in the next few weeks or months and the resources can't be spared at the moment.

 

Lockdown measures are there to control the spread of the virus to try and reduce hospital admissions with Covid-19 and not overwhelm hospitals.

Currently people are getting essential treatment, but if wards and ITUs are full of Covid-19 cases, that reduces availability for other services and therefore affects the ability to offer those essential treatments.

 

Don't forget that this virus doesn't just affect  people with underlying conditions, the frail and elderly.  It has serious effects on otherwise fit and healthy people, and also causes significant long-term consequences to health.  Some services have already diverted resources to rehabilitate people who have survived the virus, which again has knock on effects on their ability to see their usual patients.

 

We are coming into the time that usually stretches NHS hospitals to breaking point.  Let's not make it worse than usual.

[El Cid]

2 minutes ago, Becky B said:

Lockdown measures are there to control the spread of the virus to try and reduce hospital admissions with Covid-19 and not overwhelm hospitals.

 

That was why we locked down in March, because we were not ready. Surely the NHS is now prepared?

[Pettytom]

1 hour ago, butlers said:

The numbers don't really say that if you read the full article.

The expectation is covid deaths will be at 100 a day in a couple if weeks,was in radio4 this morning

If the government really wanted to trash the economy and the NHS, then allowing Covid to rip would be the way to do it.

2 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

 

I'm not agitating- I'm stating my reasoned opinions. You can disagree with me, but you can't censor me.

Stay safe. Don't be blindly complient. Stand up against bullying authority. Don't wear a mask unless you want to. Value freedom.

 

We are not 'in this together'.

Please don’t stand near to me, unmasked in any shops them. You can be as individual as you like, but don’t you go putting my health at risk

[onewheeldave]

1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

 

Please don’t stand near to me, unmasked in any shops them. You can be as individual as you like, but don’t you go putting my health at risk

 

 

I'd ask the same of you, please cease to perpetuate fear and hysteria amongst the public and defend harmful lockdowns while neglecting to acknowledge the serious consequences of said lockdowns on the economy and access to medical care- you are putting my life, and the lives of many others, at risk.

 

I'm self employed and autistic- it was hard enough getting sufficient work before all this; my industry is one of those that have been totally crippled by the covid measures. We've had the last of the [partially] compensatory grants, from now on the future is very worrying.

 

And there are many in a worse position than me. 

 

 

[tinfoilhat]

2 hours ago, El Cid said:

That was why we locked down in March, because we were not ready. Surely the NHS is now prepared?

Have we trained thousands more doctors and nurses since then?

[onewheeldave]

2 hours ago, Becky B said:

Whilst I agree with you about tackling the long term health of the nation (which is a discussion for another place, I think), we are currently trying to manage a crisis, and the resources are needed for that.  Long term changes to the general health of the nation aren't something that's going to happen in the next few weeks or months and the resources can't be spared at the moment.

 

 

I'd say, given it is a prime cause of covid deaths [obesity, heart disease, type 2 diabetes etc are very significant risk factors for dying of covid] this is as good a place as any to discuss it?

 

What really strikes my about the current hysteria is how there seems to be so little discussion of the actual causes of the pandemic. The science is clear on the role of chronic long term preventable illness; the science is clear on the actual origins of this and other pandemic viruses- extreme animal agriculture where large numbers of ill and ill treated animals are packed in close proximity, creating an ideal environment for novel viruses to take hold and mutate to the extent that they can cross into and infect other species [humans]. Pollution is another.

 

Yet all the media and authorites are talking about is more ways to control an unwilling population and create more industries to innovate and police lockdown measures.

 

This pandemic has killed, 0.06% of the global pandemic. Spanish flu is estimated to have killed between 3% and 10% of the population. Make no mistake, covid is trivial in comparison to a real pandemic.

 

By not addressing the actual causes of the pandemics, we guarantee they will continue to appear, and when we get one as bad, or worse, than the Spanish flu, no amount of masking & locking people down is going to help.

 

I can't remember the name of the book I read several years ago, but I remember the quote from a senior specialist in pandemics stating, in connection with a pandemic that wipes out a serious percentage of humanity, that, unless the actual causes are addressed [animal agriculture] that 'it is not a matter of if, but of when' i.e. it's virtually certain to occur.

2 hours ago, Becky B said:

 

 

 

Currently people are getting essential treatment, but if wards and ITUs are full of Covid-19 cases, that reduces availability for other services and therefore affects the ability to offer those essential treatments.

 

 

Some might be [getting essential treatment], but many aren't, and won't be for quite a while- there are huge backlogs due to the hopsitals being locked down and empty during the first lockdown.

 

During the first lockdown hospitals came nowhere near to being overwhelmed and sat empty, occupied by nurses creating complex dance routines and posting them on Youtube. Patients were barred from hospitals and the majority of appointments became phone consultations. What a tragic waste.

[iansheff]

Just reading the article below where it says: 

The government's new NHS Covid-19 app has come under fire after it emerged it can't accept results of tests carried out in NHS hospitals or Public Health England labs.

 

The Government are not inspiring confidence with their track and trace app.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-shambles-nhs-covid-19-22746601#source=breaking-news

Edited September 26, 2020 by iansheff

[onewheeldave]

2 hours ago, Becky B said:

 

 

Don't forget that this virus doesn't just affect  people with underlying conditions, the frail and elderly.  It has serious effects on otherwise fit and healthy people, and also causes significant long-term consequences to health.  Some services have already diverted resources to rehabilitate people who have survived the virus, which again has knock on effects on their ability to see their usual patients.

 

 

I can't say much about that, because we don't know what proportion of otherwise fit and healthy people, who get serious long-term consequences on health. I'm pretty sure it's fairly low, as so many otherwise fit and healthy [and young] people have reported having had covid and suffering minimal, or no, conequences.

Obviously some  otherwise fit and healthy [and young] people will get long term consequences, but, if it's no higher than the portion who experience the same with, say, flu, bee stings, vaccination reactions etc, then it's not really a factor.