Coronavirus - Part Two.

[catmiss]

3 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

That’s a very dignified response to a rather unpleasant post.

Thank you. Making things personal only undermines your argument 

[PeteM01]

23 hours ago, petemcewan said:

Are we nearly there yet ?  Ans, Yes.

 

Hold on and be safe and we'll get through this.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/26/oxford-vaccine-prompts-immune-response-in-old-people-astrazeneca

 

For the scientifically minded.

 

Would it not be prudent to administer  a CD 4/CD8 cell test 

to those testing positive (rt.PCR) for Cov-19?

The levels of these cells give a snapshot of the state  of the immune system .

The upshot being a count of less than 500 CD 4s(peripheral  blood count ) coupled with  low CD 8s might mean the person will progress to severe Cov-19

symptoms .

An immune profile better than the above,might indicate that the person testing postive may very well get away with mild/moderate Cov-19 symptoms.

Note: CD 4/CD8 cell counting is not an antibody test.

 

If I was testing positive for Cov-19. I'd like to know the state of my immune system Humeral and Cell mediated.

 

For all the professors out there . Is the above "dead in the water",or is it worth a punt ?

If you've got the quids you can get any test you like..

T cell counting that can discriminate between subsets is slow and expensive, relative to PCR. The T cell story is very interesting, though: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563

[petemcewan]

PeteMO1

Thank you for directing me to that Article.

I think we will be hearing a lot more about T Cells and Cell Mediated Immunity in respect of Cov-19 .

 

Like the article says,"the media pay scant attention to it".

I've included the following because, I think we need some uplifting  news ;after the announcement that antibody immunity doesn't last that long.
"Two months, sometimes three months after the vaccination the synthesis of antibodies is turned off and their level sometimes drops to zero.

"But that does not mean that the human body is no longer protected against this pathogen.

"The memory cells formed in the process whenever they encounter the same pathogen or the same antigen in the form of a vaccine begin to generate the required amount of antibodies not in two or three weeks' time, but literally within 3-4 days.

"For this reason a decline in the level of antibodies after vaccination is an absolutely normal development, so those who have been vaccinated should feel no worries," Gintsburg said. ■

 

 

CHRISTIAN FERNSBY ▼ | October 27, 2020

Edited October 28, 2020 by petemcewan

[onewheeldave]

2 hours ago, petemcewan said:

PeteMO1

Thank you for directing me to that Article.

I think we will be hearing a lot more about T Cells and Cell Mediated Immunity in respect of Cov-19 .

 

Like the article says,"the media pay scant attention to it".

I've included the following because, I think we need some uplifting  news ;after the announcement that antibody immunity doesn't last that long.
"Two months, sometimes three months after the vaccination the synthesis of antibodies is turned off and their level sometimes drops to zero.

"But that does not mean that the human body is no longer protected against this pathogen.

"The memory cells formed in the process whenever they encounter the same pathogen or the same antigen in the form of a vaccine begin to generate the required amount of antibodies not in two or three weeks' time, but literally within 3-4 days.

"For this reason a decline in the level of antibodies after vaccination is an absolutely normal development, so those who have been vaccinated should feel no worries," Gintsburg said. ■

 

 

CHRISTIAN FERNSBY ▼ | October 27, 2020

And, presumably, the same will hold true for those who have had covid already- the memory cells formed during the infection will ensure the same robust defence against re-infection?

 

 

[whiteowl]

Nottinghamshire has gone into tier 3 with an strange addition, no alcohol to be sold from shops after 9pm.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-54717821

 

For the life of me, I can't see how that helps?

 

It would annoy me as I tend to do most of my supermarket shopping later on as there are less crowds (and presumably less chance of infection? 🤷‍♂️)

[petemcewan]

4 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

And, presumably, the same will hold true for those who have had covid already- the memory cells formed during the infection will ensure the same robust defence against re-infection?

Onewheeldave

 

The scientists looking into immunity  have to do more research before that question can be answered with a categorical "Yes".

At the moment reinfection is a rare thing-lets hope it stays that way.

 

You can  read up about ongoing research.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-020-0798-y

 

Two crucial questions that need answering are:

how do T  cell responses in the peripheral blood reflect events in the respiratory tract. And is T cell  activation antigen specific ?

 

This line of research along side vaccine development will offer humanity  life saving therapeutics.An I think that is something everybody would like to see.

 

 

[onewheeldave]

5 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

And, presumably, the same will hold true for those who have had covid already- the memory cells formed during the infection will ensure the same robust defence against re-infection?

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, petemcewan said:

Onewheeldave

 

The scientists looking into immunity  have to do more research before that question can be answered with a categorical "Yes".

 

 

 

Just to be clear, it's not a categorical 'yes' to whether the memory cells formed during the infection will ensure the same robust defence against re-infection; is it also not a categorical 'yes' to what the article was saying i.e. 

 

"The memory cells formed in the process whenever they encounter the same pathogen or the same antigen in the form of a vaccine begin to generate the required amount of antibodies not in two or three weeks' time, but literally within 3-4 days.

"For this reason a decline in the level of antibodies after vaccination is an absolutely normal development, so those who have been vaccinated should feel no worries,"

 

Because if it's a categorical 'yes' to the latter, but not the former, I'm unclear on why declining antibodies aren't a problem post vaccine, but might be post an actual infection. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by onewheeldave

[tinfoilhat]

France in full lockdown for a month. Germany doing  broadly the same. We will follow them in a week, two weeks tops.

[Pettytom]

2 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

 

Just to be clear, it's not a categorical 'yes' to whether the memory cells formed during the infection will ensure the same robust defence against re-infection; is it also not a categorical 'yes' to what the article was saying i.e. 

 

"The memory cells formed in the process whenever they encounter the same pathogen or the same antigen in the form of a vaccine begin to generate the required amount of antibodies not in two or three weeks' time, but literally within 3-4 days.

"For this reason a decline in the level of antibodies after vaccination is an absolutely normal development, so those who have been vaccinated should feel no worries,"

 

Because if it's a categorical 'yes' to the latter, but not the former, I'm unclear on why declining antibodies aren't a problem post vaccine, but might be post an actual infection. 

Declining antibodies, post infection, aren’t a problem.

 

Poor quality journalists are though.

[Anna B]

1 hour ago, tinfoilhat said:

France in full lockdown for a month. Germany doing  broadly the same. We will follow them in a week, two weeks tops.

Some very scarey figures being mooted on TV News, forcasting a possible further 80,000 deaths over the period till next Spring, and the age group is coming down as well, 50 and 60 year olds now seem to be more vulerable as well as those over 70 according to scientists. 

 

Scaremongering or a real and serious cause for concern?