Longcol Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, MuteWitness said: It is in parliament on the 14th if there should be restrictions for those not having the vaccine. Have you a source for this please? Googling "covid vaccination vote 14 december uk" and similar draws blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuteWitness Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, melthebell said: well, people want the freedom to choose, they also get the consequences of their freedom, thats called being an adult, seems like theres this weird nieve childlike ignorance of things, just like with brexit, have your cake and eat it. Since vaccines include a small dose of the disease / virus those side effects look like symptoms youd get with the virus so it seems obvious you may experience veryminor symptoms, and as you say they normally include them with all medicines anyway why doesnt this one include a small amount of the virus, i thought thats how vaccines worked? why is this one special? Thought you might know. I'm unsure why it doesn't contain the virus but some reports say the virus was never isolated but had hoped someone could tell me. 1 minute ago, Longcol said: Have you a source for this please? Googling "covid vaccination vote 14 december uk" and similar draws blanks. Someone's posted the link above you that says it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Relic Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 45 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: Thanks for that- I didn't know about it. For those who oppose the covid vaccine being compulsory [restricting access to travel and social events is compulsion] there is an online petition here- https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442 The wording of the petition is very interesting: "I want the Government to prevent any restrictions being placed on those who refuse to have any potential Covid-19 vaccine. This includes restrictions on travel, social events, such as concerts or sports. No restrictions whatsoever." There are many people who simply do not understand the threat of restrictions, and simply focus on the Government making vaccination compulsory. Those people may well be satisfied with the Governments response on this (same reference): "There are currently no plans to introduce a Covid-19 vaccine in a way that penalises those who do not take up the vaccine. However, the Government will carefully consider all options to improve vaccination rates, should that be necessary." Of course, the Government are leaving the prospect of making it compulsory at a later date out there, but saying they have no plans to do it now. Assuming that most people offer a jab get one (or two), the r number will come down, infections will drop drastically, and life can go back to normal. The recent restrictions have led to infections coming down - vaccinations should just continue this process, without any need for any compulsion (that would prove unpopular, and probably wouldn't work anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 6 hours ago, West 77 said: All the correct procedure has been followed by the MHRA to approve the vaccine. The reason why it has been approved much quicker than normal is because the MHRA got involved much earlier in the process and worked around the clock and responded as soon as possible to deal with the information throughout the testing. The Russian Sputnic V vaccine is being given out in Moscow today but unlike the MHRA their regulators haven't followed the same procedure as the UK, EU and the US before a vaccine can be given to the general public. What worries me is that the UK, EU and US pharmacuetical corporations are governed by profit above all else, and there is a lot of money to be made from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Thirsty Relic said: The wording of the petition is very interesting: "I want the Government to prevent any restrictions being placed on those who refuse to have any potential Covid-19 vaccine. This includes restrictions on travel, social events, such as concerts or sports. No restrictions whatsoever." There are many people who simply do not understand the threat of restrictions, and simply focus on the Government making vaccination compulsory. Those people may well be satisfied with the Governments response on this (same reference): "There are currently no plans to introduce a Covid-19 vaccine in a way that penalises those who do not take up the vaccine. However, the Government will carefully consider all options to improve vaccination rates, should that be necessary." Of course, the Government are leaving the prospect of making it compulsory at a later date out there, but saying they have no plans to do it now. Assuming that most people offer a jab get one (or two), the r number will come down, infections will drop drastically, and life can go back to normal. The recent restrictions have led to infections coming down - vaccinations should just continue this process, without any need for any compulsion (that would prove unpopular, and probably wouldn't work anyway). Of course, I hope you are right. I'm not anti-vax but I am very anti-compulsory covid vaccination [including compulsion in the form of 'restrictions' to travel/social events] But I see several factors that lead me to believe that compulsory covid vaccination is on the cards for the future- 1. the govt has previously issued several statements saying it won't be mandatory "“There will be no compulsory vaccination, that’s not the way we do things in this country." https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/uk-news/boris-johnson-says-covid-19-19333253 yet here they are about to have a debate on whether to restrict those who turn it down! 2. the constant wording such as "It is vital that a significant proportion of people who are offered take up a Covid-19 vaccine in order to protect themselves as well as other vulnerable individuals. Averting a second wave is a key priority for the government and high take up of a vaccine when available will greatly contribute to that." with the implied threat that if the public don't go along with it in the required numbers, then, just as happened with many of the lockdown measures, they will be made to. 3. as we've learned on this thread, no safety testing for long-term side effects for the vaccine [it would be impossible]- as someone has previously pointed out, long term side effects are considered unlikely, nevertheless, a portion of the public will refuse it for that reason. 4. we've also learned that no testing has been done for drug interactions- I feel this will inevitably lead to many of those on long term pharmaceuticals being somewhat wary of having the vaccine, and, of course, the vaccine won't be permitted for those who are pregnant or on immuno-suppressive drugs. points 3 and 4 could well lead to sufficient numbers refusing the vaccine [or not being eligible for it], that the government will increase the pressure, via restrictions, or, ultimatey, making it compulsory. Edited December 5, 2020 by onewheeldave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, Anna B said: What worries me is that the UK, EU and US pharmacuetical corporations are governed by profit above all else, and there is a lot of money to be made from this. 1 minute ago, West 77 said: They only make huge profit by having successful safe drugs and vaccines. The Oxford / AstraZeneca group are going to make it easier for poorer countries to access their vaccine. pharmacuetical corporations in general are actually quite crooked- here's a list of the largest legal settlements when their crimes have been uncovered- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements Bear in mind that the sums may seem large, but generally are peanuts compared to the profits achieved by the crimes, which pretty much guarantees things won't change, as the settlements basically become a straightforward business expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 hours ago, melthebell said: Think you need to take a look at how vaccinations work and what diseases we have kept at bay with vaccinations, yeah there can be side effects, how do you get rid of something when only half the population take it? Even the experts have said we wont erradicate COVID, just like we can only moderate the effects of flu and pneumonia. There around 20,000 deaths from the flu/pneumonia in some years but we dont have compulsary vaccination. We have sexually transmitted disceases causing harm and deaths but no forced testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 40 minutes ago, MuteWitness said: Someone's posted the link above you that says it Ah, it's one of 9 covid related petitions that will be debated in parliament. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions?state=awaiting_debate&topic=covid-19 Votes on these aren't binding on the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Relic Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 18 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: I see several factors that lead me to believe that compulsory covid vaccination is on the cards for the future- 1. the govt has previously issued several statements saying it won't be mandatory "“There will be no compulsory vaccination, that’s not the way we do things in this country." https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/uk-news/boris-johnson-says-covid-19-19333253 yet here they are about to have a debate on whether to restrict those who turn it down! I think you will find that the parliamentary discussion on the 14th was a direct result of a petition to the Government on this point, which already has 288,000 e-signatures: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442 "At 100,000 signatures your petition on the UK Government and Parliament site will be considered for a debate in Parliament" https://petition.parliament.uk/help If such a petition had not been started, it could well be that we would have ended up with restrictions on people who have not been vaccinated, with companies asking for evidence of vaccination before getting access to their premises. That would not only prevent those refusing to be vaccinated a "normal" life, but would also discriminate against those not able to have a jab (those on medication that clashes and the pregnant). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Thirsty Relic said: I think you will find that the parliamentary discussion on the 14th was a direct result of a petition to the Government on this point, which already has 288,000 e-signatures: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442 "At 100,000 signatures your petition on the UK Government and Parliament site will be considered for a debate in Parliament" Yes- I posted that link myself a bit back 1 hour ago, onewheeldave said: Thanks for that- I didn't know about it. For those who oppose the covid vaccine being compulsory [restricting access to travel and social events is compulsion] there is an online petition here- https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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