Coronavirus - Part Two.

[hauxwell]

16 minutes ago, PRESLEY said:

True, there is quite a few coming our way, 350 million of the Oxford Vaccine alone have been ordered according to Boris.  

I will be keeping my fingers crossed for the Oxford Vaccine.  

[PRESLEY]

5 minutes ago, hauxwell said:

I will be keeping my fingers crossed for the Oxford Vaccine.  

Same here,  the Pfizer Vaccine will probably be absorbed by the priority list, rightly so,  and the Oxford Vaccine with deal with the remainder, covering all applicable age groups.  Me thinks.

[Thirsty Relic]

While the Government are ruling out compulsory vaccination, they are hinting at using "immunity passports":

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1366726/coronavirus-vaccine-pubs-reopening-football-stadiums-immunity-passport-ont

 

The problem as I see it is that if details of who has had the vaccine is available, there are no end of get-rich-quick companies who will be quite happy to sell vaccine-passports that people can produce to show they have had the vaccine.  That would inevitably give rise to others producing fake certificates, just as the fake proof-of-age ones many underage teenagers seem to have access to. 

 

There is also the question of privacy.  The NHS and Medical Centres are charged with keeping  patients details confidential (there have been high-profile breaches with hospitals passing details to Google without patients permission etc), yet if there are passports, these (or at least the Covid status) details will have been made public.  Indeed, the article suggests that having the vaccine could be included on the Test and Trace App that many people voluntarily use.  

 

If this use of our medical details was to be permitted (this is being discussed in parliament on the 14th, but these passports may already be in use by then), what will be next? Those who have the flu jab, or what?

[MuteWitness]

There's already a guy in Dubai that's forged covid negative test results for people to use on planes.

[El Cid]

3 hours ago, PRESLEY said:

True, there is quite a few coming our way, 350 million of the Oxford Vaccine alone have been ordered according to Boris.  

You must have got your figures wrong there, there are only 66 million people in the contry. Double that if two doses are needed, take out the children that will not be given the vaccine, adults that dont want it. Then we have the millions of other doses of the other vaccines bought by Boris, they should be ready soon.

Probably need around 40 million doses, altogether.

[PRESLEY]

23 minutes ago, El Cid said:

You must have got your figures wrong there, there are only 66 million people in the contry. Double that if two doses are needed, take out the children that will not be given the vaccine, adults that dont want it. Then we have the millions of other doses of the other vaccines bought by Boris, they should be ready soon.

Probably need around 40 million doses, altogether.

I agree 350 million is a bitt OTT ref the Population,  But Im sure I heard that figure mentioned by Boris on the Downing street breifing earler this week,  I'll have to dig the Potatoes out of my ears.  

[El Cid]

5 minutes ago, PRESLEY said:

I agree 350 million is a bitt OTT ref the Population,  But Im sure I heard that figure mentioned by Boris on the Downing street breifing earler this week,  I'll have to dig the Potatoes out of my ears.  

Facts dont matter these days. Boris is our leader, too large a majority, everyone just lets him get on with it!

[PRESLEY]

8 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Facts dont matter these days. Boris is our leader, too large a majority, everyone just lets him get on with it!

 

9 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Facts dont matter these days. Boris is our leader, too large a majority, everyone just lets him get on with it!

He tells that many porkies, he believes them himself. 

[onewheeldave]

2 hours ago, Thirsty Relic said:

While the Government are ruling out compulsory vaccination, they are hinting at using "immunity passports":

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1366726/coronavirus-vaccine-pubs-reopening-football-stadiums-immunity-passport-ont

 

 

I believe the govt are playing a bit of a game with their 'hints'. They will want compulsory vaccination- what they want to avoid is a huge backlash against it; the least they will settle for is the more insiduous form of compulsion employed by China i.e. you don't have to have the vaccine, but if you don't you can't travel or acess social events/schools etc.

 

They know that that form of compulsion can be passed off as not compulsion, but as choice- they also know that a segment of the public will go along with that, and promote it.

 

A standard political manouver is to encourage debate, not on the thing you wish to implement, but, a more extreme version of that thing- this shifts a lot of the debate/protest towards the extreme thing, then, you simply say that won't happen then, we'll have the lesser thing [i.e. the thing you actually wanted all along]. At that point a lot more people will go along with your 'compromise' than would have if that game hadn't been played.

 

You may have noticed Matt Hancocks 'hints' that compulsory covid vaccinations weren't 'ruled out'- giving the impression that he doesn't want compulsion, but, if uptake isn't sufficent, it may have to be considered i.e. compulsion may be necessary as a last resort, but he really doesn't want to impose it.

 

https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-GBGB843GB844&sxsrf=ALeKk00DsEpszap0307OvZc627vCWAiMwA%3A1607266928452&ei=cPLMX-eRG8So8gKg0KeADw&q=matt+hancock+covid+update+vaccine+compulsory&oq=matt+hancock+covid+update+vaccine+compulsory&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIFCCEQkgMyBQghEJIDMgUIIRCSAzIFCCEQkgMyBQghEJIDMgUIIRCSAzoECCMQJzoFCAAQyQM6CAgAEBYQChAeOgYIABAWEB46CAghEBYQHRAeOgUIIRCgAToHCCEQChCgAToECCEQFVD3XljWjAFgzo8BaABwAHgAgAGOAYgB0Q6SAQQxNi40mAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesABAQ&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjnidHyz7ntAhVElFwKHSDoCfAQ4dUDCA0&uact=5

 

However, prior to covid, in september last year, he/govt was “looking very seriously” at making vaccinations [non covid ones, obviously] compulsory for state school pupils and has taken advice on how such a law could work, the health secretary has said."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/29/government-seriously-considering-compulsory-vaccinations-matt-hancock

 

So why, given his clear support for mandatory vaccines well before the covid epidemic, his he now issuing statements which imply that he only wants compulsory covid vaccine as a last resort?

 

IMO, he is playing the game I explained above. 

 

The govt 'hints' will continue, along with increasing use of terms like 'responsibility' joined with references to how anyone refusing the vaccination will be putting lives at risk and basically be responsible for future lockdowns. 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by onewheeldave

[Anna B]

57 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

I believe the govt are playing a bit of a game with their 'hints'. They will want compulsory vaccination- what they want to avoid is a huge backlash against it; the least they will settle for is the more insiduous form of compulsion employed by China i.e. you don't have to have the vaccine, but if you don't you can't travel or acess social events/schools etc.

 

They know that that form of compulsion can be passed off as not compulsion, but as choice- they also know that a segment of the public will go along with that, and promote it.

 

A standard political manouver is to encourage debate, not on the thing you wish to implement, but, a more extreme version of that thing- this shifts a lot of the debate/protest towards the extreme thing, then, you simply say that won't happen then, we'll have the lesser thing [i.e. the thing you actually wanted all along]. At that point a lot more people will go along with your 'compromise' than would have if that game hadn't been played.

 

You may have noticed Matt Hancocks 'hints' that compulsory covid vaccinations weren't 'ruled out'- giving the impression that he doesn't want compulsion, but, if uptake isn't sufficent, it may have to be considered i.e. compulsion may be necessary as a last resort, but he really doesn't want to impose it.

 

https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-GBGB843GB844&sxsrf=ALeKk00DsEpszap0307OvZc627vCWAiMwA%3A1607266928452&ei=cPLMX-eRG8So8gKg0KeADw&q=matt+hancock+covid+update+vaccine+compulsory&oq=matt+hancock+covid+update+vaccine+compulsory&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIFCCEQkgMyBQghEJIDMgUIIRCSAzIFCCEQkgMyBQghEJIDMgUIIRCSAzoECCMQJzoFCAAQyQM6CAgAEBYQChAeOgYIABAWEB46CAghEBYQHRAeOgUIIRCgAToHCCEQChCgAToECCEQFVD3XljWjAFgzo8BaABwAHgAgAGOAYgB0Q6SAQQxNi40mAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesABAQ&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjnidHyz7ntAhVElFwKHSDoCfAQ4dUDCA0&uact=5

 

However, prior to covid, in september last year, he/govt was “looking very seriously” at making vaccinations [non covid ones, obviously] compulsory for state school pupils and has taken advice on how such a law could work, the health secretary has said."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/29/government-seriously-considering-compulsory-vaccinations-matt-hancock

 

So why, given his clear support for mandatory vaccines well before the covid epidemic, his he now issuing statements which imply that he only wants compulsory covid vaccine as a last resort?

 

IMO, he is playing the game I explained above. 

 

The govt 'hints' will continue, along with increasing use of terms like 'responsibility' joined with references to how anyone refusing the vaccination will be putting lives at risk and basically be responsible for future lockdowns. 

 

 

Emotional blackmail...