butlers Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) Office of National statistics. In 2020, there were 5,224 suicides registered in England and Wales, equivalent to an age-standardised mortality rate of 10.0 deaths per 100,000 people and statistically significantly lower than the 2019 rate of 11.0 deaths per 100,000. This pattern has been seen in several countries Edited November 17, 2021 by butlers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheffieldBricky Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, sadbrewer said: I don't mean to be offensive but that is very misguided, I know several young people who have been seriously damaged by Covid, one lad 21 years old lost a chance to join the Submarine service because Covid damaged his heart, he had 5 months off work and still isn't well a year later...a friend's son caught it early in the pandemic whilst in Italy, 29/30 yrs old, 6 foot 5 inch University rower...as strong and fit as they come, he spent 10 continuous weeks in bed and again is still not fully recovered. As to you saying the vaccine doesn't work as well as they said it would...I'm not sure who said that with any degree of knowledge because no-one really knew ...people might guess...but no-one knew for certain. What I can tell you...through my day job I'm party to the facts figures and updates from the Director of Public Health and other senior health staff at of one of the SY Boroughs, and their opinion is that the vaccine has saved this country from absolute mayhem...the first few weeks after vaccination started deaths and hospitalisations started to fall...as it gathered pace they fell faster until hospital beds became free and we could take excess patients from other areas, despite an upsurge after the total unlocking only 50 people out of nearly 300,000 are currently in hospital, only 15 are serious cases. This is a massive massive success. If you have loved ones...please, please, get the vaccine as early as you can. It's still mayhem. The country is in big trouble because it's not over yet. I'm not downplaying, I hope, although I don't know one single person who has had it and neither does anyone in my family so that may cloud my judgement. Only time will tell if the govs response was the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becky B Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 21 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said: Excess deaths per year is a better gauge I think because a lot of people who are supposed to have died from corona had other serious health conditions so if they got the flu or similar illness may have died as well. I think the excess death rates for this year will be an important statistic but we won't have that for a while. Also have to take into account the number of people who have died because they didn't get treatment because of covid priorities and also additional suicides. I don't think the figure is going to be that much higher than some of the worst years in the past. But we will see. Although earlier in the year was higher than usual.. • Excess deaths in England and Wales 2021 | Statista I haven't looked at the statistical figures for excess deaths - to be honest, being in the thick of it meant I wanted to get away from it when I came home. Anecdotally though (which seems to be an accepted form of evidence for some of the contributors to this thread), deaths were far higher than with 'flu, in a population that would be expected to be at risk from both viruses on the basis of age and co-morbidities. This will be skewed by the fact that everyone on the ward had Covid, wheras (previously) 'flu cases tend to be more spread out - there are usually fewer of them so they can be manged in isolation on individual wards. However, the fact that entire wards had to be cohorted for Covid patients should tell you something about the relative infectiousness of the virus, compared to something like 'flu...that we have vaccines and treatment for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 33 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said: Excess deaths per year is a better gauge I think because a lot of people who are supposed to have died from corona had other serious health conditions so if they got the flu or similar illness may have died as well. I think the excess death rates for this year will be an important statistic but we won't have that for a while. Also have to take into account the number of people who have died because they didn't get treatment because of covid priorities and also additional suicides. I don't think the figure is going to be that much higher than some of the worst years in the past. But we will see. Although earlier in the year was higher than usual.. • Excess deaths in England and Wales 2021 | Statista no - they had pre-existing conditions - eg diabetes. Doesn't mean they were at deaths door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteowl Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Well, acid test for the vaccine for me as I've tested positive tonight (LFT) - going for a PCR tomorrow that I expect to be positive as the person I'm fairly sure I caught it off has tested positive with a PCR. No symptoms so far so fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheffieldBricky Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Becky B said: I haven't looked at the statistical figures for excess deaths - to be honest, being in the thick of it meant I wanted to get away from it when I came home. Anecdotally though (which seems to be an accepted form of evidence for some of the contributors to this thread), deaths were far higher than with 'flu, in a population that would be expected to be at risk from both viruses on the basis of age and co-morbidities. This will be skewed by the fact that everyone on the ward had Covid, wheras (previously) 'flu cases tend to be more spread out - there are usually fewer of them so they can be manged in isolation on individual wards. However, the fact that entire wards had to be cohorted for Covid patients should tell you something about the relative infectiousness of the virus, compared to something like 'flu...that we have vaccines and treatment for... I looked back over the last few decades and there were some high figures for many years over 1000 per 100000. It was only a little higher last year but not catastrophic. It may not be over, my fear is that there may be another strain which the vaccine doesn't work on at all. I don't know what they'll do then. If you look back to the early 2000s and earlier you'll see the numbers were similar to now and the population is higher now. Unless I've read it wrong. And thank you for all you've done. Deaths in the UK from 1990 to 2020 - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk) 3 minutes ago, Longcol said: no - they had pre-existing conditions - eg diabetes. Doesn't mean they were at deaths door. Okay but if they had lung cancer it's a different story. Or any lung problem really. 4 minutes ago, whiteowl said: Well, acid test for the vaccine for me as I've tested positive tonight (LFT) - going for a PCR tomorrow that I expect to be positive as the person I'm fairly sure I caught it off has tested positive with a PCR. No symptoms so far so fingers crossed. Good luck. I paid 50 quid for an antibody test a while ago and was disappointed that I hadn't had it because I'd been ill a few times.. Think natural immunity is important. These tests aren't always accurate though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said: It's still mayhem. The country is in big trouble because it's not over yet. I'm not downplaying, I hope, although I don't know one single person who has had it and neither does anyone in my family so that may cloud my judgement. Only time will tell if the govs response was the right thing to do. It's not Mayhem, but it is an ongoing battle, our Borough had over 800 deaths, even after reopening in September there has only been 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbuncle Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said: I looked back over the last few decades and there were some high figures for many years over 1000 per 100000. It was only a little higher last year but not catastrophic. It may not be over, my fear is that there may be another strain which the vaccine doesn't work on at all. I don't know what they'll do then. If you look back to the early 2000s and earlier you'll see the numbers were similar to now and the population is higher now. Unless I've read it wrong. And thank you for all you've done. Deaths in the UK from 1990 to 2020 - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk) Unfortunately, this ignores the long-term trend in improving health and changes in the UK's age distribution. Put another way going back to the 2000s is a big step backward as is made clear by the trend in life expectancy at birth ( https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/bulletins/nationallifetablesunitedkingdom/2018to2020#life-expectancy-at-birth ). To say 2021 may be as bad as a year in the early 2000s is to say things are pretty bad. Edited November 17, 2021 by Carbuncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheffieldBricky Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 minute ago, sadbrewer said: It's not Mayhem, but it is an ongoing battle, our Borough had over 800 deaths, even after reopening in September there has only been 20. I wasn't referring only to covid but to all the damage to business, the economy and society. Somebody is going to have to pay for it. I was reading the other day that the economic damage from covid is a lot less than the financial crash, which surprised me. We got over that but lets hope they don't expect the poorest to pay this lot off again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butlers Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Those deaths over the last 20 plus years, it was a pronounced ,more or less year on year decline until 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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