SheffieldBricky Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Carbuncle said: Unfortunately, this ignores the long-term trend in improving health and changes in the UK's age distribution. Put another way going back to the 2000s is a big step backward as is made clear by the trend in life expectancy at birth ( https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/bulletins/nationallifetablesunitedkingdom/2018to2020#life-expectancy-at-birth ). To say 2021 may be as bad as a year in the early 2000s is to say things are pretty bad. True. It's complicated and needs a stats expert to weight the data. For example I would assume that there have been less deaths on the roads and in dangerous occupations recently because of lockdowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bargepole23 Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, Longcol said: no - they had pre-existing conditions - eg diabetes. Doesn't mean they were at deaths door. Yeah, but for the antivax/covid denial mob, they're expendable, an acceptable sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butlers Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 More or Less on radio4 , is a 15min podcast that chews over what the pandemic stats actually mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheffieldBricky Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, butlers said: Those deaths over the last 20 plus years, it was a pronounced ,more or less year on year decline until 2020 True but not by as many as I thought. 1 minute ago, Bargepole23 said: Yeah, but for the antivax/covid denial mob, they're expendable, an acceptable sacrifice. Nah. I don't believe there are that many antivaxxers in the sense it is used. If someone is hesitant and doesn't want it and says why they're usually shouted down and called all sorts of name. We've all had vaccines in the past. The thing with covid is a lot of people don't fear it because they don't worry about getting it. In the majority of cases they are right. But if Ebola spread quickly and there was a big wave I can tell you people would be running to the docs with their sleeve up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said: Okay but if they had lung cancer it's a different story. Or any lung problem really. 15 million people in the UK have long term conditions. https://www.patients-association.org.uk/long-term-conditions Diabetes has usually figured as first or second pre-existing condition when it comes to covid deaths (you'll need to download the spreadsheets). https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/preexistingconditionsofpeoplewhodiedduetocovid19englandandwales I've had work colleagues who've managed their diabetes for years. Like I said - not at deaths door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheffieldBricky Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Longcol said: 15 million people in the UK have long term conditions. https://www.patients-association.org.uk/long-term-conditions Diabetes has usually figured as first or second pre-existing condition when it comes to covid deaths (you'll need to download the spreadsheets). https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/preexistingconditionsofpeoplewhodiedduetocovid19englandandwales I've had work colleagues who've managed their diabetes for years. Like I said - not at deaths door. Thanks. They have died from multiple causes then. What are the odds they would have died of one if they didn't have the other? If they didn't have diabetes would they have died from covid? I suppose there are lots of other factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said: Thanks. They have died from multiple causes then. What are the odds they would have died of one if they didn't have the other? If they didn't have diabetes would they have died from covid? I suppose there are lots of other factors. Over 90% of death certificates of people who've died of/with covid show covid as the underlying cause as at April 21. https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsduetocovid19 Sorry can't find anything more up to date - HMG appear to be only releasing weekly figures rather than cumulative ones of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top4718 Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Delayed said: How many more times? The vaccine does not provide immunity. And having covid does not provide immunity going forward. Everyone can still get covid. Your body learns how to fight the infection and the effects are lessened because you can fight it off. Not true, the vaccine alters your natural immunity, no one has any idea how your natural immunity will cope in the future when faced with other viruses. I'm glad I've kept mine in the state that's got the human race through thousands of years. Many new sources tonight are reporting that 9300 more people than usual have died from non-covid illnesses in the last four months, very worrying for you experimental vax lovers, don't know how you sleep at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbuncle Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, top4718 said: no one has any idea how your natural immunity will cope in the future when faced with other viruses. BS. 2 minutes ago, top4718 said: Many new sources tonight are reporting that 9300 more people than usual have died from non-covid illnesses in the last four months, very worrying for you experimental vax lovers, don't know how you sleep at night. But none you're prepared to hang your hat on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, top4718 said: Many new sources tonight are reporting that 9300 more people than usual have died from non-covid illnesses in the last four months True - but not as many excess deaths as caused by covid. https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/science-health/954825/extra-non-covid-deaths-increase What is more worrying is that people in hospital with covid are a quarter of last January's peak - that's 27,000 fewer beds occupied by covid patients - but the NHS can't cope. There is something wrong with the NHS - has it got enough funding / staff / beds? UK is well down the list of beds per 1,000 population in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_beds Edited November 17, 2021 by Longcol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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