Coronavirus - Part Two.

[RJRB]

2 minutes ago, top4718 said:

No problem. There'll be more along soon.

Perhaps a stroll through the NGH Cardiac Department would be helpful.

[Carbuncle]

13 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

I agree there is some absolute rubbish spouted by anti vaxxers, but there is also absolute rubbish spouted by the government, how about :

...

There has indeed been a great deal of rubbish spouted by the government and the MSM. On some occasions they have lied (eg regarding PPE during the early stages of pandemic in the UK) while on other occasions it has occurred through ignorance or simple error. I wish they were more transparent and more accurate.

[Chekhov]

2 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

There has indeed been a great deal of rubbish spouted by the government and the MSM. On some occasions they have lied (eg regarding PPE during the early stages of pandemic in the UK) while on other occasions it has occurred through ignorance or simple error. I wish they were more transparent and more accurate.

I absolutely agree with you. Even when they haven't lied they have been biased in the way they have reported stuff. As a result my trust in them is at close to zero levels, and this has consequences, e.g. I am not minded to believe them about how serious man made climate change is. They over egged Covid and tried to scaremonger people for most of 2020 and 2021, why should I not think they're doing the same about Climate change ? Particularly as they are asking me to sacrifice much of my money and some of my quality of life to fight it (exactly like Covid in the latter respect).

Edited November 25, 2021 by Chekhov

[Bargepole23]

18 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

I agree there is some absolute rubbish spouted by anti vaxxers, but there is also absolute rubbish spouted by the government, how about :

 

"This virus is indiscriminate" (UK Government briefing March 2020) ?

 

Or the infamous Government radio advert back in Jan 2021 : "That person passing you in the park is highly likely to have Covid"
At the time it was about 1 in 50, which is not highly likely by any reasonable definition of the word. It is also highly UNlikely that anyone would catch Covid outdoors from someone passing them in the park.
https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/government-pulls-ad-states-joggers-highly-likely-covid-19/1705305

 

And Amanda Pritchard (chief executive of the NHS) who, on the 8th Nov this year, claimed “The NHS is running hot...We have had fourteen times the number of people in hospital with Covid than we saw this time last year”. Even "fullfact" (who I usually find are a bit biased when it comes to Covid) admit that was ******, it was actually fewer than in Nov 20...... Yet, AFAIK, the 14X claim was repeated on more than one news outlet !

March 2020 being at very beginning of this pandemic, when little or no data was available on the impact on different age groups and those with underlying conditions, and the government, quite rightly in my opinion, erred on the side of caution with that statement.

[Carbuncle]

2 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

I absolutely agree with you.

There is a solution at least some of the time and that is to go take a look at the sources. Many of the relevant academic journals have lowered their paywalls so that you can read their papers on covid. The preprint servers allow access to many papers prior to peer review. We also have access to ONS and UK HSA data and to the SAGE minutes and documents prepared for their meetings. Truly the internet is a wondrous thing.

[Chekhov]

1 minute ago, Bargepole23 said:

March 2020 being at very beginning of this pandemic, when little or no data was available on the impact on different age groups and those with underlying conditions, and the government, quite rightly in my opinion, erred on the side of caution with that statement.

That's absolute rubbish ! I can remember looking at the death stats for Covid in mid March 2020 (before the lockdown) and seeing that kids were at pretty much zero risk and young people at no significant risk.

This was on the BBC in March 2020 :

[Carbuncle]

3 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

That's absolute rubbish ! I can remember looking at the death stats for Covid in mid March 2020 (before the lockdown) and seeing that kids were at pretty much zero risk and young people at no significant risk.

You are conflating risk with risk of death. Death is not the only way in which covid turns out badly. You are also confusing estimates with accurate estimates.

[butlers]

As childhood asthma is so rampant , thankfully covid does not seem to have impacted on that too badly

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10231349/Naivety-cardiac-arrest-means-footballers-die-clubs-dont-perform-test-available.html

[onewheeldave]

16 hours ago, Longcol said:

You can vaccinate millions in a year as proven by the covid vaccine roll out.

 

Encouraging fitness regimes takes one helluva lot longer to work through to relatively small percentages of the population.

Encoraging fitness doesn't sacrifice civil liberties, coerced and compulsory vaccinations do.

8 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Are you kidding ? ! ?

You seem to be saying that only a relatively small percentage of the population are unfit ! ! !

I also note you did not add "being slimmer" which I did.

Cutting the obesity problem and the lack of fitness in this country would self evidently make far more of a difference to the strain the NHS is under, but don't just take my word for it :

 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2014/09/serious-about-obesity/

Get serious about obesity or bankrupt the NHS

That's been the case for some time- make no mistake, a prime cause of the NHS being clogged up and the huge waiting lists, is the amount of resources being used to treat people with diseases that, in the main, are caused by diet and lack of fitness i.e. type 2 diabetes, obesity/overweight, heart disease etc.

The only way covid could ever 'overload' the NHS is as being 'the straw that breaks the camel's back' in the context of an NHS which is already on the edge of breakdown due to the above.

So I ask again, why is it that the focus has been on covid to justify civil liberty destroying lockdown measures, when it has always been considered OK for the NHS to be overwhelmed by the above lifestyle diseases that have attracted zero draconian measures?

8 hours ago, Chekhov said:

The principle is sound, though 75 is a bit old I'd have thought. You do have to remember that back in early 2020 few people seemefd confident we'd get vaccines of great effectiveness as quickly as we in fact did.

 

 

That is because the medical experts were stressing that effective vaccines would necessarily be years down the line, due to the extensive long term safety testing necessary before they could be launched.

3 hours ago, Carbuncle said:

As is typical you have not got your facts straight. Sweden did not let it rip. You have consistently mis-stated the policies of the Swedish government. For example, Sweden's state epidemiologist had a 'stay at home' recommendation all the way from March 25th, 2020 until September 28th, 2021. Yes, that's right Sweden tried to reduce the spread through non-pharmaceutical measures. They also, at times, had requirements related to the mask wearing in public spaces - despite what you have repeatedly asserted - although they generally tried to make recommendations rather than impose restrictions. Why can't you get your facts right? Why do you copy-and-paste straight from the covid sceptic sites straight into your brain rather than checking with reliable sources?

I think the point he is making is that if the UK's more draconian lockdowns and compulsory measures were to save the NHS being overwhelmed, how come Sweden's medical system was not overwhelmed given that it did not impose that level of draconian lockdowns and compulsory measures? It effectively casts great doubt on the assertion that such compulsory measures were in fact responsible for the NHS remaining underwhelmed.

2 hours ago, makapaka said:

Our child’s school has just reintroduced masks in school - which is bizarre given they’ve just all been through a vaccination programme which prior to they didn’t need to wear masks….

I'd suggest getting used to bizarreness- it is looking like this constant imposition of 'measures' will be strung along for a good few years. Covid is not going to go away, neither is the frenzied paranoia and erosion of civil liberties in the name of 'fighting' it [IMO].

Edited November 25, 2021 by onewheeldave

[melthebell]

so a long term online "mate" just posted the following yesterday

 

the first death in the family from covid, that a person refused to vaccinate.

yet a college educated, intelligent... and yet he cut his hair.

if anyone else I know is promoting nonsense as anti-vaccination.. we are done.

 

not sure what the yet he cut his hair bit is, google translate obviously went a bit weird lol, hes from Slovakia,  but been a friend online nearly as long as ive been on this forum. Obviously a family member was a conspiracy theorist who refused to get vacinated and now has caught covid and died