petemcewan Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) To the Forum. Quote ” Sack agrees: “We say in general that young people don’t get as sick, but we also know that some young people die.” There’s also the risk that surviving participants could suffer long-term consequences, says Monica McArthur, a physician-scientist in the Center for Vaccine Development and Global Health at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. “While I’m a proponent of challenge models, I think there are some ethical requirements, and those include having a significant knowledge of the long-term effects of the infection.” The quote is from The Scientist. It addresses the ethics of challenge vaccination and the seriousness of Cov-19. But I'm using it to support the argument that dumping suppression measures in favour of Herd Immunity, is unethical. Recognising that Cov-19 behaves in a disproportionate way between the young,elderly and BAME populations. Is not a sufficiently ethical argument for chucking the vulnerable under the bus and letting Cov-19 run rampant -because -for some- to continue with suppression measures is inconvenient. Every life is of equal value. And we do not trade off the lives of the vulnerable for the convenience of those who do not fit the vulnerable profile. We have to search for a way out of this paradox that embraces and protects all of us. Mitigation ultimately means abandoning the vulnerable. Herd Immunity protocols are the last resort of scoundrel governments. Quote Look after your loved ones, have a look around your workmates or friends, is there someone or something you can do to help? I personally agree complete with the sentiments expressed in the quote above Edited October 10, 2020 by petemcewan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernboy Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 The app does “go off” occasionally with a pop up notification to say you’ve been in contact with someone with symptoms, but the notification then vanishes into thin air. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54389083 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki-red Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, northernboy said: The app does “go off” occasionally with a pop up notification to say you’ve been in contact with someone with symptoms, but the notification then vanishes into thin air. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54389083 Yeah, myself and my son have had the ‘possible exposure’ notifications, the sooner they sort it the better as it’s quite concerning the first time it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthor Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 (edited) On 10/10/2020 at 10:59, petemcewan said: To the Forum. The quote is from The Scientist. It addresses the ethics of challenge vaccination and the seriousness of Cov-19. But I'm using it to support the argument that dumping suppression measures in favour of Herd Immunity, is unethical. Recognising that Cov-19 behaves in a disproportionate way between the young,elderly and BAME populations. Is not a sufficiently ethical argument for chucking the vulnerable under the bus and letting Cov-19 run rampant -because -for some- to continue with suppression measures is inconvenient. Every life is of equal value. And we do not trade off the lives of the vulnerable for the convenience of those who do not fit the vulnerable profile. We have to search for a way out of this paradox that embraces and protects all of us. Mitigation ultimately means abandoning the vulnerable. Herd Immunity protocols are the last resort of scoundrel governments. I personally agree complete with the sentiments expressed in the quote above Excellent post. We have no idea of the long term consequences of the virus on the body, so, it's negligent to expose anyone to Cv-19 unless it is absolutely necessary. Young or old, co-morbidities or none. I was accused of scaremongering when I stated in the previous thread, that we do not know whether the virus might lay dormant in the body, only to flare up again when the infected person is at a low ebb, similar to the Herpes/coldsore virus. There's an emerging school of thought, apparently, as re-infections become more numerous, that the virus may be similar to Dengue fever, in this aspect. I sincerely hope that it isn't but if it does turn out to be the new AIDS, with many infected and no cure for decades, it will be catastrophic. Herd immunity is murder. We don't even know if anyone will be immune past the six month period. The only way to beat the virus and to get the economy back on its feet is to adopt a zero Covid policy, as successful countries are now benefitting from. I'm afraid with the bunch of lazy, corrupt incompetents we have in charge now, they would never succeed in this. So we need new, effective leadership Schools are propelling transmission rates. The fact we now know that the virus can still be in the air in a room, nine hours after an infected person has left it, just points to how ridiculous it is to force everyone to attend school and sit in classrooms for hours with 30 others . There should be online learning made available for those families that want it. Mahatma Gandhi Quote: “The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members.” On 10/10/2020 at 10:00, Rockers rule said: Unfortunately suicides, marriage break ups and mental health problems have always been a part of any redundancy. Throw in this totally new and very worrying world wide pandemic and yes there will be more of the above, So what do we do about it? Look after your loved ones, have a look around your workmates or friends, is there someone or something you can do to help? .... Keep safe - look after each other. Great post. Edited October 11, 2020 by Lex Luthor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 It looks like things are being re-enforced later today but whatever is made illegal who can check on whose breaking the rules with regards to households mixing etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 On 09/10/2020 at 15:19, tinfoilhat said: What, these experts? https://news.sky.com/story/coronvairus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947 Ha ha! Good to see my old friend I P Freely is still with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Easy livin said: Its interesting to see that the 50,000 a day scare number that had the panic ridden running to hide behind the sofa has not been hit in fact its less than half that. i wonder when people are going to finally stop listening to these idiots. every single time they open their mouths they are wrong. Less than half now - and the 50k was if we just threw everything open if memory serves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 7 hours ago, Jason302 said: It looks like things are being re-enforced later today but whatever is made illegal who can check on whose breaking the rules with regards to households mixing etc? Isn't the government planning on employing thousands of 'Marshalls' to police it? Who knows what powers they may have been given, even permission to enter people's homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRESLEY Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 8 hours ago, Jason302 said: It looks like things are being re-enforced later today but whatever is made illegal who can check on whose breaking the rules with regards to households mixing etc? Just been in asda and loads aren't wearing mask, apparently staff aren't allowed to pull em up because so called enforcers and police are supposed to be doing it and dishing out fines, but where are they, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmiss Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 52 minutes ago, Anna B said: Isn't the government planning on employing thousands of 'Marshalls' to police it? Who knows what powers they may have been given, even permission to enter people's homes. After 7 months shielding (give or take a few weeks of freedom) an extra visitor would be quite welcome 😷 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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