Longcol Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: I would think that not many at all are dead, given that the total number of deaths attributed to covid in the whole of the UK, today stands at 50 [which is one ninth the number who die daily from cancer] https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ Someone has quickly forgotten the 1,400 covid related deaths in one day in April. https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/topic/473199-coronavirus-part-two/page/121/?tab=comments#comment-8369182 Edited October 12, 2020 by Longcol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettytom Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: I would think that not many at all are dead, given that the total number of deaths attributed to covid in the whole of the UK, today stands at 50 [which is one ninth the number who die daily from cancer] https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ The thing about cancer is that the numbers are stable and largely unpreventable. Deaths from an infectious disease are neither. The Covid death figure has trebled in just over a week. Try projecting that forward into January. Making a false equivalence between the two things does you no favours. Everyone would like to see deaths from cancer falling, and cancer treatments becoming more effective. That doesn’t mean that we ignore Covid. Quite the opposite really, as every Covid patient in hospital prevents someone else getting treated. The maths are immutable in this case. Let Covid rip and you’ll have huge numbers hospitalised with the virus, swamping other services. Here, have a read about Manaus. This is what ignoring the virus does: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/brazils-covid-19-epicentre/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, Pettytom said: The thing about cancer is that the numbers are stable and largely unpreventable. Deaths from an infectious disease are neither. The Covid death figure has trebled in just over a week. Try projecting that forward into January. Deaths last Monday [1 week ago] were 54. On Wednesday they got to 74. Today, 50. Not sure why you think they've trebled. As you know, I'm not ignoring the deaths that have and will be caused by the lockdown- via rising mental health issues, suicide, unemployment, lack of access to medical treatment etc- I think they are important. [As are the civil liberty issues]. If over the next 6 weeks covid deaths/day in the UK climb to 1000 I'll change my attitude towards the lockdown, but, at the current 50/day, I consider some aspects of it to be counter productive and harmful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Just now, onewheeldave said: Deaths last Monday [1 week ago] were 54. On Wednesday they got to 74. Today, 50. Not sure why you think they've trebled. As you know, I'm not ignoring the deaths that have and will be caused by the lockdown- via rising mental health issues, suicide, unemployment, lack of access to medical treatment etc- I think they are important. [As are the civil liberty issues]. If over the next 6 weeks covid deaths/day in the UK climb to 1000 I'll change my attitude towards the lockdown, but, at the current 50/day, I consider some aspects of it to be counter productive and harmful. As pointed out several times before - deaths reported on Monday are always the lowest of the week as they haven't caught up with the stats because of the weekend.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettytom Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: Deaths last Monday [1 week ago] were 54. On Wednesday they got to 74. Today, 50. Not sure why you think they've trebled. As you know, I'm not ignoring the deaths that have and will be caused by the lockdown- via rising mental health issues, suicide, unemployment, lack of access to medical treatment etc- I think they are important. [As are the civil liberty issues]. If over the next 6 weeks covid deaths/day in the UK climb to 1000 I'll change my attitude towards the lockdown, but, at the current 50/day, I consider some aspects of it to be counter productive and harmful. 19 on the 5th October 81 on the 10th. I do apologise, they’ve quadrupled. Covid deaths will rise, and quickly. That’s horrible, but inevitable. The infections that will kill those people have already happened and can’t be undone. We can limit future infections (and deaths) though. You won’t change your mind, I’m sure of that. You didn’t know that the peak daily death toll was over 1400. You are on record on this thread as disbelieving that, despite evidence to the contrary. Did you read the article about Manaus, that I linked to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 24 minutes ago, Pettytom said: The thing about cancer is that the numbers are stable and largely unpreventable. Deaths from an infectious disease are neither. The Covid death figure has trebled in just over a week. Try projecting that forward into January. Making a false equivalence between the two things does you no favours. Everyone would like to see deaths from cancer falling, and cancer treatments becoming more effective. That doesn’t mean that we ignore Covid. Quite the opposite really, as every Covid patient in hospital prevents someone else getting treated. The maths are immutable in this case. Let Covid rip and you’ll have huge numbers hospitalised with the virus, swamping other services. Here, have a read about Manaus. This is what ignoring the virus does: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/brazils-covid-19-epicentre/ There are lots of strange outliers. Look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ especially the deaths per million column- currently 500/day+ for the UK and USA, whereas in a lot of African states in is under 10/day. Of course that could be partly attributed to less advanced tallying, but equally, it could be due to the greatly different diet/lifestyle i.e. maybe the big problem in the advanced western countries is in large part due to their toxic diet and lifestyle, resulting in obesity/type 2 diabetes/heart disease and several other chronic conditions having become almost the norm- the exact conditions which it is known makes people infected with covid far more likely to succumb to it. I disagree that most cancer deaths are unpreventable, but I'm not going to get into that here. But heart disease is largly preventable and that also causes 450 deaths/day- obesity and type 2 diabetes are largely preventable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettytom Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Just now, onewheeldave said: There are lots of strange outliers. Look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ especially the deaths per million column- currently 500/day+ for the UK and USA, whereas in a lot of African states in is under 10/day. Of course that could be partly attributed to less advanced tallying, but equally, it could be due to the greatly different diet/lifestyle i.e. maybe the big problem in the advanced western countries is in large part due to their toxic diet and lifestyle, resulting in obesity/type 2 diabetes/heart disease and several other chronic conditions having become almost the norm- the exact conditions which it is known makes people infected with covid far more likely to succumb to it. I disagree that most cancer deaths are unpreventable, but I'm not going to get into that here. But heart disease is largly preventable and that also causes 450 deaths/day- obesity and type 2 diabetes are largely preventable. Africa, on the whole, has a more youthful population than Europe. In my experience, Africans are fine at counting though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pettytom said: 19 on the 5th October 81 on the 10th. I get my figures from the link I post- https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ which has 54 on the 5th oct and 31 on the 10th oct. 6 minutes ago, Pettytom said: You won’t change your mind, I’m sure of that. You didn’t know that the peak daily death toll was over 1400. You are on record on this thread as disbelieving that, despite evidence to the contrary. Did you read the article about Manaus, that I linked to? I've always posted the link to the figures I'm using, and the peak was a little under a thousand. There are good reasons to question even that figure, given that people who died with, not of covid, have been classed as covid deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettytom Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: I get my figures from the link I post- https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ which has 54 on the 5th oct and 31 on the 10th oct. It’s all here https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, Pettytom said: Did you read the article about Manaus, that I linked to? Yes- that is what I was referring to with 'outliers' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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