tinfoilhat Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 7 minutes ago, L00b said: It's not auspicious, and the way the Commission went about it makes for poor optics. Expect a corrective U-turn very soon... ...or, as the case may turn out, an explainer to justify the decision. I'm intrigued into way they are doing it? Do they think AZ are on the fiddle? More over do they think they're on the fiddle at Boris' behest? They are coming out of this very badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said: I'm intrigued into way they are doing it? Do they think AZ are on the fiddle? More over do they think they're on the fiddle at Boris' behest? They are coming out of this very badly. Apparently a delivery note was found by investigators, for a very early shipment of vaccine from AZ's Belgian factory to NI, which (if it happened) puts AZ in breach of its contractual obligations to the EU about the initial 300m doses. That breach would then necessarily be either wilful (on gvt order or out of patriotism or ...) or accidental. The export control is designed to mitigate reoccurrence of that breach irrespectively of whether it is wilful or accidental: customs officer would just seize the shipments in Zeebrugge or wherever else they leave Belgium. But this is all still looking very confused, there is some doubt about whether the Commission actually took a/the decision under Article 16 at all, and it wasn't instead some unauthorised disclosure of preparatory materials (the Commission had been talking about Art.16 for quite a while). It's a political mess. But at least, it's not an illegal one (if the decision was actually taken), because Art.16 allows unilateral invoking without consultation in an emergency (which this would be, if the underlying facts are averred). Edited January 29, 2021 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 22 minutes ago, L00b said: Apparently a delivery note was found by investigators, for a very early shipment of vaccine from AZ's Belgian factory to NI, which (if it happened) puts AZ in breach of its contractual obligations to the EU about the initial 300m doses. That breach would then necessarily be either wilful (on gvt order or out of patriotism or ...) or accidental. The export control is designed to mitigate reoccurrence of that breach irrespectively of whether it is wilful or accidental: customs officer would just seize the shipments in Zeebrugge or wherever else they leave Belgium. But this is all still looking very confused, there is some doubt about whether the Commission actually took a/the decision under Article 16 at all, and it wasn't instead some unauthorised disclosure of preparatory materials (the Commission had been talking about Art.16 for quite a while). It's a political mess. But at least, it's not an illegal one (if the decision was actually taken), because Art.16 allows unilateral invoking without consultation in an emergency (which this would be, if the underlying facts are averred). I hate our government. They're incompetent liars in the main but they got in early (to the horror of many scientists around the world), gambled and won. To the untrained mind like mine, its a contract row. EU citizens are watching our clown car of a government smash nearly 500k jabs a day at one point . Spain i think has less than 800k total. And I'd imagine Spanish and German and French etc people are rather ****** off that they're loved ones are behind us - the stupid British who left the EU. Unless there is some very dodgy dealings going on - I'm not sure our government are smart enough to do that, they're devious enough to try - the EU snoozed and lost. Imagine if you will, if this decision was reversed. Do you think the EU would be sending vaccines to us? No, not one. It would be all "you're a third party, you voted to leave, you can't have the benefits". This whole charade is political arse covering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteowl Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, tinfoilhat said: I hate our government. They're incompetent liars in the main but they got in early (to the horror of many scientists around the world), gambled and won. To the untrained mind like mine, its a contract row. EU citizens are watching our clown car of a government smash nearly 500k jabs a day at one point . Spain i think has less than 800k total. And I'd imagine Spanish and German and French etc people are rather ****** off that they're loved ones are behind us - the stupid British who left the EU. Unless there is some very dodgy dealings going on - I'm not sure our government are smart enough to do that, they're devious enough to try - the EU snoozed and lost. Imagine if you will, if this decision was reversed. Do you think the EU would be sending vaccines to us? No, not one. It would be all "you're a third party, you voted to leave, you can't have the benefits". This whole charade is political arse covering. Absolutely this. I'm a fairly avid remainer (is that even a word these days?) but I do think the EU fumbled the ball on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinderKid Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, L00b said: Apparently a delivery note was found by investigators, for a very early shipment of vaccine from AZ's Belgian factory to NI, which (if it happened) puts AZ in breach of its contractual obligations to the EU about the initial 300m doses. That breach would then necessarily be either wilful (on gvt order or out of patriotism or ...) or accidental. The export control is designed to mitigate reoccurrence of that breach irrespectively of whether it is wilful or accidental: customs officer would just seize the shipments in Zeebrugge or wherever else they leave Belgium. But this is all still looking very confused, there is some doubt about whether the Commission actually took a/the decision under Article 16 at all, and it wasn't instead some unauthorised disclosure of preparatory materials (the Commission had been talking about Art.16 for quite a while). It's a political mess. But at least, it's not an illegal one (if the decision was actually taken), because Art.16 allows unilateral invoking without consultation in an emergency (which this would be, if the underlying facts are averred). Would be interested to see where you saw this? I don't seem to have come across it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westie1889 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 The press are reporting that the Irish government were not consulted before article 16 was triggered, how on earth does that happen? On something that’s so sensitive to a member state it’s unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemcewan Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) El Cid, Quote Indeed, we need to learn. Gibraltar has had 6 deaths after they had the vaccine. Did they die as a consequence of being vaccinated ? Or did they get infected and were vaccinated too late? Edited January 30, 2021 by petemcewan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron99 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, petemcewan said: El Cid, Did they die as a consequence of being vaccinated ? Or did they get infected and were vaccinated to late? Indeed some people will be vaccinated but unfortunately die as none of the vaccines offer 100% protection. The jab(s), won't stop you from potentially getting a dose of COVID-19, just reduce its potency. A jab won't fix people's underlying health problems, which will still put them at risk. It will be the luck of the draw for a minority of people if they survive a bout of COVID-19 even after vaccination. It's the same luck that means people in tbeir teens, 20's & 30's have died while a woman of a 113, managed to survive. https://www.forbes.com/sites/sofialottopersio/2020/05/12/spains-oldest-woman-aged-113-has-survived-coronavirus/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enntee Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 11 hours ago, L00b said: Expect a corrective U-turn very soon... Didn't take long ....... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/29/eu-controls-on-vaccine-exports-to-northern-ireland-trigger-diplomatic-row Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuteWitness Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Baron99 said: Indeed some people will be vaccinated but unfortunately die as none of the vaccines offer 100% protection. The jab(s), won't stop you from potentially getting a dose of COVID-19, just reduce its potency. A jab won't fix people's underlying health problems, which will still put them at risk. It will be the luck of the draw for a minority of people if they survive a bout of COVID-19 even after vaccination. It's the same luck that means people in tbeir teens, 20's & 30's have died while a woman of a 113, managed to survive. https://www.forbes.com/sites/sofialottopersio/2020/05/12/spains-oldest-woman-aged-113-has-survived-coronavirus/ Will the bbc report deaths within 28 days of the vaccination...just to scare us even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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