MuteWitness Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 hours ago, El Cid said: People are tested before a stay in hospital, but not before a visit to the dentist. Are will we still short on vaccines? So perhaps a COVID test for a simple vaccination would be overkill, those giving the vaccine could wear full PPE I was thinking more that if an older at risk person had the vaccine but already had covid does that make recover less or more likely ? Im sure they must have tested it on those who already do have covid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, MuteWitness said: I was thinking more that if an older at risk person had the vaccine but already had covid does that make recover less or more likely ? Im sure they must have tested it on those who already do have covid. I understand that they are seeking volunteers, even now. I guess they are still researching verious things. I guess they havnt had the time untill now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemcewan Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 There's a Challenge Trial taking place somewhere in the UK-but it seems to have fallen off the radar. A challenge trial is where you give the volunteer the virus then you give them the vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dardandec Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 11 hours ago, apelike said: I did mention on here a while ago that I though it was a sensible thing to do a test first but it was shouted down rapidly by people on here as a waste of time and money. I don't recall you mentioning covid testing pre vaccine on here but I do recall you mentioning anti-body testing which is a waste of time and money. Could you please link me to the covid test posts please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Dardandec said: I don't recall you mentioning covid testing pre vaccine on here but I do recall you mentioning anti-body testing which is a waste of time and money. Could you please link me to the covid test posts please. Why do you think it is a waste of time and money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enntee Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, petemcewan said: There's a Challenge Trial taking place somewhere in the UK-but it seems to have fallen off the radar. A challenge trial is where you give the volunteer the virus then you give them the vaccine. Basic testing during development of vaccines. Actually the other way round ... volunteers are given either a placebo or a vaccine and then exposed to the virus. UK CoVid19 vaccine trials are now ending as it becomes unethical to deny a volunteer a vaccination if their turn comes along in the NHS programme. Enntee, Thank you for the correction. Edited January 31, 2021 by enntee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Meldrew Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 14 hours ago, enntee said: Basic testing during development of vaccines. Actually the other way round ... volunteers are given either a placebo or a vaccine and then exposed to the virus. Wouldn't it be rather dangerous giving someone a placebo and then exposing them to Covid unless you had a fool-proof treatment for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemcewan Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) Victor Meldrew, IMO the answer to your question is Yes. The ethical principles supporting the use of placebos in clinical trials are drawn from Utilitarianism. But not everybody agrees. One can argue to doomsday for and against using placebos. My own ethical principles causes me to find Utilitarianism not very attractive. I've put a couple of links just in case you'd like to dive deeper into Moral Philosophy and its role in medicine and science. https://jme.bmj.com/content/30/6/55 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4778182/ Quote The ethical problem most frequently raised regarding the administration of the placebo is that the doctor is deceiving the patient. The patient wants effective treatment; instead he receives a placebo. On these grounds, some have maintained that placebo treatment will always be unethical, a violation of the patient’s right to be honestly and fully informed about treatment. The above is position that I support. At the end of the day when one is sick and in need of treatment. I would say to the: Doc/Scientist/ Researcher ,"give me the damn medicine and you take the sweetie". Edited February 1, 2021 by petemcewan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 10 hours ago, Victor Meldrew said: Wouldn't it be rather dangerous giving someone a placebo and then exposing them to Covid unless you had a fool-proof treatment for it? I believe they werent purposely exposed, but just went about their normal lives. It would only be unethical to do it with elderly people, who can get the vaccine; months untill younger people can get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemcewan Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) https://jme.bmj.com/content/30/6/551 Edited February 1, 2021 by petemcewan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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