Coronavirus - Part Two.

[altus]

39 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Economics also play a part.

Do some of the producers aim for the more lucrative markets.This certainly seems to be the case.

The UK are paying about twice per dose for the AZ vaccine as the EU are. It's entirely possible that, faced with being unable to meet all production promises, AZ are prioritising those paying more rather than restrict deliveries to all proportionate to levels of outstanding orders. If that is the case, you can understand the EU being so upset. It would be politically impossible for AZ to admit that's what is happening though.

[tinfoilhat]

9 minutes ago, altus said:

The UK are paying about twice per dose for the AZ vaccine as the EU are. It's entirely possible that, faced with being unable to meet all production promises, AZ are prioritising those paying more rather than restrict deliveries to all proportionate to levels of outstanding orders. If that is the case, you can understand the EU being so upset. It would be politically impossible for AZ to admit that's what is happening though.

I think there's plenty of blame to go around but politicians from the EU need a healthy amount heading their way. First they gave all responsibility for purchasing of vaccines to the EU, then - even worse - they've queued up to rubbish it, question it's worth to the point great swathes of the EU population don't want it (I read only 20% of French over 65s trust it).

 

It's a useful stick to beat us with but we could export tonnes of it over there and I have great doubt wether it will get used promptly, sat in a fridge until it's PR improves.

[RollingJ]

1 hour ago, L00b said:

No, simply informing the debate a little more, in relation to the sub-topic of vaccine nationalism/triumphalism.

 

You can choose to read that post, or ‘coded’ whatever into that post -because I happened to post it rather than another- however you want: them’s the facts just the same.

Giz a shout when you feel like playing the ball sometime.

 

 

 

Very informative - no indication what it was about, its source or anything. It was, I assume,  a link, but didn't read as such.

 

BTW: you are beginning to sound a bit desperate.

Edited March 26, 2021 by RollingJ

[L00b]

4 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Very informative - no indication what it was about, its source or anything. It was, I assume,  a link, but didn't read as such.

Vaccine production, in millions of doses, per major economy bloc, with indication of volume split between domestic use and export. Published by The Independent, sourced from Airfinity.

 

It's all there, for those bothered enough to look, rather than pick an argument for argument's sake.

 

<sigh>

[L00b]

1 hour ago, tinfoilhat said:

I think there's plenty of blame to go around but politicians from the EU need a healthy amount heading their way. First they gave all responsibility for purchasing of vaccines to the EU, then - even worse - they've queued up to rubbish it, question it's worth to the point great swathes of the EU population don't want it (I read only 20% of French over 65s trust it).

 

It's a useful stick to beat us with but we could export tonnes of it over there and I have great doubt wether it will get used promptly, sat in a fridge until it's PR improves.

The demand is severely pent-up.

 

For every over-65 getting gaslit over the vaccine potency in France and elsewhere (sure, it's not just Brit OAPs who can get gaslit and anxious over invented problems), there are tens of thousands of under-65s who would drop everything and go get vaccinated on the spot.

 

Some French GPs recently went on record as cold-calling their registered patients outside of the 'correct' ranges, when nobody in the 'correct' range shows up through 'fear of the AZ' , precisely to avoid wastage. It's exactly why Castex went and got his AZ vaccine 'out of turn', to help dispel this myth.

 

The bulk of grumbling in the EU is about delayed vaccine approval (justified IMHO) and stalled vaccination programmes, not centralised and coordinated procurement, which has worked reasonably well.

 

The reason vaccination programmes are stalled, is because they were initially devised and estimated based on manufacturers' contractual delivery commitments (that have never been met yet) and because the EU respected its exporting commitments in the meantime.

 

The situation will improve, as manufacturers are made to respect their contractual commitments through export controls. Unless they're not bothered about doing business with the EU in the long-term, of course.

[RollingJ]

22 minutes ago, L00b said:

Vaccine production, in millions of doses, per major economy bloc, with indication of volume split between domestic use and export. Published by The Independent, sourced from Airfinity.

 

It's all there, for those bothered enough to look, rather than pick an argument for argument's sake.

 

<sigh>

<sigh> <sigh>  - so why not kind of inform us what it is about, so we know what we are likely to find? Or is that too hard?

Edited March 26, 2021 by RollingJ

[RollingJ]

Thanks, @West 77. I wasn't picking an argument, as you say - merely pointing out that a random series of characters isn't much use without explanation.

[apelike]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

I don't think anyone was picking an argument.  The graph you chose to provide gives a false impression of the real situation.  

And based on false statistics. 

[RJRB]

4 hours ago, L00b said:

No, simply informing the debate a little more, in relation to the sub-topic of vaccine nationalism/triumphalism.

 

You can choose to read that post, or ‘coded’ whatever into that post -because I happened to post it rather than another- however you want: them’s the facts just the same.

Giz a shout when you feel like playing the ball sometime.

 

 

 

Pick the “facts” as it suits,and also feel free to chose which ball you wish to play from the ensuing comments.

I have no idea what the various uptake is or will be when vaccine is available around the EU countries,but thus far in the U.K. the uptake is over 93% for 75 plus age group which seems pretty good to me.

I hope that there will be no delays in receiving the second jab by the due dates.

I have great sympathy for  those having to play catch up as a result of a more guarded initial approach by their medical advisers and political leaders,and I hope for more cooperation and less point scoring.

<sigh> x2

[Staunton]

We must not allow ourselves to be distracted. The important elements of the statement I posted yesterday are shown in bold type below:

 

Boris Johnson would like us to believe that capitalism and greed enabled the success of the UK vaccine project. In fact, following the private sector catastrophy of the PPE scandal and the devastating failure of the promised world-beating outsourced test and trace project, the vaccine success is due entirely to social democratic mechanisms - up front public investment to encourage innovation in a sector that prefers to sell established staples - SSRIs, analgesics and nicotine patches; the use of legacy public education institutions; and supply of the finished product 'at cost' rather than to shareholder advantage, administered via the NHS. But don't expect these facts to be celebrated on the front page of the Daily Mail or explained bythe BBC.