Judges Rule Shamima Begum Should Be Allowed Back In The Uk

[mafya]

Just an observation but this girl was only 15 at the t8me so was a child who got sucked into the Isis propaganda so what gets me is in the eyes of the law an under 18 year old is a child and it has been said that she was naive and groomed so why doesn’t the victim of grooming title apply in this case?

Im in no way a supporter of this woman and I’m not sticking up for her because she is a Muslim but if you look at it from a neutral stand point it does seem that she is being made an example of .

From what I have read she has said she is willing to do a prison sentence for her offences so would it not be an alternative that she is sentenced and then rehabilitated and then maybe she could be a person who can go on to show others that it is not wotprth going down the route she took?

 

[Baron99]

13 minutes ago, mafya said:

Just an observation but this girl was only 15 at the t8me so was a child who got sucked into the Isis propaganda so what gets me is in the eyes of the law an under 18 year old is a child and it has been said that she was naive and groomed so why doesn’t the victim of grooming title apply in this case?

Im in no way a supporter of this woman and I’m not sticking up for her because she is a Muslim but if you look at it from a neutral stand point it does seem that she is being made an example of .

From what I have read she has said she is willing to do a prison sentence for her offences so would it not be an alternative that she is sentenced and then rehabilitated and then maybe she could be a person who can go on to show others that it is not wotprth going down the route she took?

 

My bold. 

 

And this 15 year old threw her full support behind ISIS's actions, including supporting them in murdering people as old as she was, while things were going right for ISIS.  As soon as it all started to be fall apart & there was no prospect of the Caliphate they promised, she decided she wanted to come back to the UK. 

 

I'd say leaving Begum where she is in Syria is a bigger deterant to stopping people from going down the same path. 

[hauxwell]

A bit of justice for the family of Alan Henning who was beheaded by ISIS and other families who lost loved ones. They were  executed by ISIS in a barbaric and repulsive way.

Pleased she lost her appeal.

[hauxwell]

4 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

I'd say leaving Begum where she is in Syria is a bigger deterant to stopping people from going down the same path. 

I agree with you.

[Delayed]

42 minutes ago, mafya said:

Just an observation but this girl was only 15 at the t8me so was a child who got sucked into the Isis propaganda so what gets me is in the eyes of the law an under 18 year old is a child and it has been said that she was naive and groomed so why doesn’t the victim of grooming title apply in this case?

 

It's not been proven that she has been groomed and trafficked. This is her only defence but that wasn't the subject of the appeal anyway.

 

 

[Delbow]

22 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

My bold. 

 

And this 15 year old threw her full support behind ISIS's actions, including supporting them in murdering people as old as she was, while things were going right for ISIS.  As soon as it all started to be fall apart & there was no prospect of the Caliphate they promised, she decided she wanted to come back to the UK. 

 

I'd say leaving Begum where she is in Syria is a bigger deterant to stopping people from going down the same path. 

I have a fifteen year old - the idea that he should be culpable for the rest of his life for what he does now seems ludicrous. He comes out with all sorts of crap, which is to be expected because he's 15. I do get that there's a difference between taking ice baths because he saw it on YouTube and marrying an Islamo-fascist, but I think there has to be some leniency. We had to work hard to keep our lad from getting sucked into the whole manosphere / Andrew Tate woman-hating, must-aspire-to-getting-a-Bugatti BS, because the influence of what's online over children is scarily strong. Our parenting style is very active, I can see how less engaged parents can easily lose their teenage kids to what they see online.

[Findlay]

My 15 year old is very capable of making judgements for herself and accepting any of the consequences of that action.
Begum was not trafficked in the slightest and was very capable of making the journey out of the UK.
This serves as a reminder to those that were or are thinking along similar line,s and will have saved many more children from taking the same journey.

[peak4]

The appeal was as to whether the actions of Javid were legal, not whether they were morally right or wrong.
As far as I can see, these three girls were on the front pages of most newspapers etc, so Javid was playing more to a domestic audience, rather than an international one, or anything to do with national security.

This was quoted earlier;
It could be argued that the decision in Ms Begum’s case was harsh; it could also be argued that Ms Begum is the author of her own misfortune.

But it is not for this court to agree or disagree with either point of view. Our only task is to rule on whether the decision made under s 40 was unlawful

The whole judgement , from which that is extracted, is HERE

 

I'm not sure it is still available via The BBC, but Josh Baker's highly acclaimed podcast series made very interesting listening.
It, and The BBC, were roundly criticised on this forum,  and elsewhere, by people who hadn't listened to it.

 

[hackey lad]

Would love to know how much these appeals have cost the taxpayers .

[m williamson]

3 hours ago, Findlay said:

My 15 year old is very capable of making judgements for herself and accepting any of the consequences of that action.
Begum was not trafficked in the slightest and was very capable of making the journey out of the UK.
This serves as a reminder to those that were or are thinking along similar line,s and will have saved many more children from taking the same journey.

That's your 15 year old,  do you think that every 15 year old is the same?  Are you under the impression that your 15 year old received the same type of parenting and was exposed to the same influences as Begum was?

 

As I said in my post at # 94 0n page 8, this country has missed an opportunity to come out looking like the magnanimous good guys and at the same time using the situation to our advantage by using her to dissuade other Muslim girls from making the same mistake.

 

She was a child when she did it.  We could have used the situation to our benefit,  instead we look like draconian bullies which plays into the hands of the extremists.

 

A childish mistake crushed by the power of the state.