Litotes Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Planner1 said: The number who actually went by car wasn’t known until the surveyor asked them. The questions were asked to a sample of people in the main shopping area. The surveyor has no idea how they got there until they ask the questions, so how is that biased? It is a biassed population that was being questioned and therefore the result is biassed - I didn't say that the process was biassed, just that the answer was and any promotion of the results should have explicitly stated that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planner1 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, Litotes said: It is a biassed population that was being questioned and therefore the result is biassed - I didn't say that the process was biassed, just that the answer was and any promotion of the results should have explicitly stated that. Sorry if I am labouring the point, but the survey was primarily to find out how shoppers get to the central shopping area and understand how far they had travelled and, as a secondary question, what their thoughts were on council spending priorities in the shopping area. These results were contrasted against the responses given by retailers. How is a sample of passing shoppers biased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planner1 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Bigal1 said: But your example of parking charges is also flawed. Most research is based on a sample not a census and whilst it would not be at all sensible to carry out a study when MOST were on holiday what would be far more important would be to ensure that the survey was representative of the residents especially on the subject of car ownership and access to private parking Litotes is making veiled reference to some actual survey work which was done years ago in the consultation on the Sharrow Vale parking scheme. It was done during the students summer holidays, which he wasn’t happy about. However, some of his neighbours didn’t think that students should be eligible for the scheme at all, let alone be consulted on it. You can’t please everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) If you went to a football match and asked how many people here support the home team and it turned out you were standing in the home end you would consider yourself to have a biased population. If you then asked the same population how many people think we should spend money on the home team or the away team, and they all said the home team, they you would have a biased answer. These results would only be considered biassed in hindsight, but any good statistician would not publish these results without the caveats "this was the result from a series of questions to a biased population" being explicit. Otherwise people will use the results to support fallacious arguments... I also think it interesting that it appears some of the people who did not drive to the shopping centre supported the case for free parking. Edited August 11, 2020 by Litotes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl1 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 21 hours ago, Planner1 said: Litotes is making veiled reference to some actual survey work which was done years ago in the consultation on the Sharrow Vale parking scheme. It was done during the students summer holidays, which he wasn’t happy about. However, some of his neighbours didn’t think that students should be eligible for the scheme at all, let alone be consulted on it. You can’t please everyone. Just goes to show how important background and methodology are . Clearly a sample that excludes students who live in the area is biased. Can believe that some would think only house owners should be eligible or only those who pay council tax - could it be that they want a return of the poll tax? 22 hours ago, Planner1 said: Sorry if I am labouring the point, but the survey was primarily to find out how shoppers get to the central shopping area and understand how far they had travelled and, as a secondary question, what their thoughts were on council spending priorities in the shopping area. These results were contrasted against the responses given by retailers. How is a sample of passing shoppers biased? I am not say it is bias but the time of day could lead to a bias if concentrated on the lunch hour or early evening and overestimating those who work in the city center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest busdriver1 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 On 11/08/2020 at 13:04, Planner1 said: How is a sample of passing shoppers biased? Genuine question. Were the "shoppers" asked if they were shoppers or just people passing the point? That could indeed make a difference as people do not just go to town for shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Most surveys done by the SCC are done in such a way that they get the result they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest busdriver1 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 In fairness. Not just SCC. Many use the same system hence the saying. There are lies, damn lies and statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl1 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 1 hour ago, busdriver1 said: In fairness. Not just SCC. Many use the same system hence the saying. There are lies, damn lies and statistics. One of the big problems these days is things like survey monkey that allow people to conduct their own surveys very cheaply and a belief that anyone can design a survey. This means that in many companies there are no professional market researchers who know about survey design and sampling and very few who are members of the Market Research Society and adhere to the code of conduct. Result meaningless or bias research not objective research. Unfortunately there is plenty of c**p research around If you want a laugh then have a look at this survey from labour councilors in Hillsborough claiming to be about transport and note especially the privacy notice before you enter your real name and postcode http://hillsboroughlabour.org.uk/survey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Bynnol Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) Is this discussion about a survey about transport in Hillsborough where opinion are sought from Hillsborough residents? Asking for a postcode is an easy method to verify, at a low level of intrusion, that you come from Hillsborough. If this is a discussion about collecting information in a survey about travel habits from many versus gut feelings and ''Survey Monkey' I am speechless. As we all know all surveys are flawed as are opinions and yes we should not act on three surveys in three population, but we should account for this trend and evaluate if planning is over influenced by an opinion which is overrated. Edited August 13, 2020 by Annie Bynnol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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