South Yorkshire Bus Service Needs Improvement

[RollingJ]

1 minute ago, blackydog said:

I catch Stagecoach 50 bus when I go to town. I used to pay £3.60 return. Now I have been told by a driver, that option no longer exists, so I have to pay £2 each way. To be fair, he said I can't sell you that option, and let me on for free, even though I offered to pay the £2. Now I just pay the £2 but the cap does me no favours whatsoever.

Yup, the '£2 max single journey' will affect people like you. The operators need to recoup some of the losses, so cheap return fares will get dumped. I suppose it works for most people, though.

 

2 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

I have heard that Manchester have a very good system well funded.

 

Not the area I was thinking of, and the one I was covers a larger area.

[HeHasRisen]

7 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Yup, the '£2 max single journey' will affect people like you. The operators need to recoup some of the losses, so cheap return fares will get dumped. I suppose it works for most people, though.

 

Not the area I was thinking of, and the one I was covers a larger area.

Stagecoach were still offering their £3.40 "short distance return" when I last used the tram on the 30th December though, so they are clearly being picky about what they offer or not 

[BigAl1]

7 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Yup, the '£2 max single journey' will affect people like you. The operators need to recoup some of the losses, so cheap return fares will get dumped. I suppose it works for most people, though.

 

 

No the government is paying for it not the operators I would have said it is Stagecoach taking the p**s there is no reason why they can not still offer a cheaper return

[RollingJ]

2 minutes ago, BigAl1 said:

No the government is paying for it not the operators I would have said it is Stagecoach taking the p**s there is no reason why they can not still offer a cheaper return

As it doesn't affect me as an ENTCS pass-holder, I haven't gone into the scheme in depth, but I suspect that it is a 'block' payment, so will not necessarily cover all lost revenue.

[blackydog]

8 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

Stagecoach were still offering their £3.40 "short distance return" when I last used the tram on the 30th December though, so they are clearly being picky about what they offer or not 

Who's have thought it...

[Planner1]

2 hours ago, harvey19 said:

I have heard that Manchester have a very good system well funded.

Funding for transport usually comes from the government and is often allocated on a per capita basis ( or very similar).

 

The money comes via the city region / Combined Authority and Greater Manchester has twice the population of South Yorkshire, so you can well see why they get more money to spend on these things.

 

Also much of Greater Manchester is a large conurbation, so there are more potential public transport customers within a reasonable distance of public transport routes, which makes justifying major investments such as tram routes, easier in financial terms.

 

Also because there’s a lot of investment going into developments, they get more contributions from developers to use on transport ( like the free busses in Manchester).

[RollingJ]

1 minute ago, Planner1 said:

Funding for transport usually comes from the government and is often allocated on a per capita basis ( or very similar).

 

The money comes via the city region / Combined Authority and Greater Manchester has twice the population of South Yorkshire, so you can well see why they get more money to spend on these things.

 

Also much of Greater Manchester is a large conurbation, so there are more potential public transport customers within a reasonable distance of public transport routes, which makes justifying major investments such as tram routes, easier in financial terms.

 

Also because there’s a lot of investment going into developments, they get more contributions from developers to use on transport ( like the free busses in Manchester).

You keep going on about 'the money' and these great political players. As I have said before, politics cannot solve the problem just by throwing money around - you have to get everyone involved - yes, including local councils - but the problem is that, from what I have seen in the Yorkshire region especially, politicians see themselves as the sole arbiters, and are reluctant (incapable?) of involving the concerns/operators who actually have to provide the reality.

 

In the area where I have seen very well patronised public transport, the councils/operators have worked well together - without the need for a PTE or suchlike. They actually have constructive debate, and reach a position where the 'political' needs are balanced with operational reality.

[Resident]

3 hours ago, RollingJ said:

Interesting response - I wonder who the 'bad boys' were? I know one area in the UK where a true 'partnership' works, although a certain national operator seems to have excluded themselves - no surprise, knowing said operators methods.

I have heard that the former PTE still owes operators money from previous fundings & throw in delays when it's enquired about. If it is true then it makes you wonder why the PTE aren't willing to pay what's due, especially if it's from a grant/funding from elsewhere....

[RollingJ]

10 minutes ago, Resident said:

I have heard that the former PTE still owes operators money from previous fundings & throw in delays when it's enquired about. If it is true then it makes you wonder why the PTE aren't willing to pay what's due, especially if it's from a grant/funding from elsewhere....

None of that would surprise me in the slightest. Maybe they've spent it on something they shouldn't have...?

 

I've seen similar comments in the past on a certain forum - mostly used by people in the industry - so they probably know more than Joe Public.

 

Additional question: What actually does the PTE (or its successor?) do? Very little from what I can see.

Edited February 20, 2023 by RollingJ

[Guest busdriver1]

45 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

You keep going on about 'the money' and these great political players. As I have said before, politics cannot solve the problem just by throwing money around - you have to get everyone involved - yes, including local councils - but the problem is that, from what I have seen in the Yorkshire region especially, politicians see themselves as the sole arbiters, and are reluctant (incapable?) of involving the concerns/operators who actually have to provide the reality.

 

In the area where I have seen very well patronised public transport, the councils/operators have worked well together - without the need for a PTE or suchlike. They actually have constructive debate, and reach a position where the 'political' needs are balanced with operational reality.

There is a LOT more to this than just simple population levels. The Manchester system was well thought out and well implemented resulting in confidence for further expansion. THAT was a major factor. Not the only one but it went a long way.