No New Petrol Or Diesel Cars After 2030-Will There Be A U Turn?

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

That does not answer my question in any way. What are these 'targets' - that are changed on an almost daily basis - anyway?

 

So you are just arguing for the sake of arguing - thought so.

Hard luck then.  I didn't set the targets so you should ask those who did.

If you know,  that they are changed on an almost daily basis,  then you must know more about them than I do,  so why ask me ?   You seem to be the expert.

Do you always answer your own questions ?

Edited July 28, 2023 by Organgrinder

[RollingJ]

32 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Hard luck then.  I didn't set the targets so you should ask those who did.

If you know,  that they are changed on an almost daily basis,  then you must know more about them than I do,  so why ask me ?   You seem to be the expert.

Do you always answer your own questions ?

So you still don't know what these 'targets' are - OK then. How are you determining that we aren't reaching them?

 

Do you ever answer anyone else's questions?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

So you still don't know what these 'targets' are - OK then. How are you determining that we aren't reaching them?

 

Do you ever answer anyone else's questions?

I didn't say that I don't know what the targets are.   I determine we are not reaching the targets because the scientists keep telling us and the government are not denying it.

Yes,  I do answer some peoples questions.

 

You seem to have a mistaken idea  of what a forum is.

Despite you thinking that you are an interrogation officer  and I am a suspect.   I am  here to debate as I wish and with whom I wish.

Up until now, I have been co-operative with you and have answered or advised you where to look,  but you are getting tiresome now as you have before.

If you need questions answering then I suggest you look elsewhere as I choose which questions I answer and from which posters.

I am debating petrol & diesel cars and pollution so,  if you want to play silly boy's,  then do it with someone else.

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Organgrinder

[RollingJ]

Just now, Organgrinder said:

Because the scientists keep telling us and the government are not denying it.

Yes,  I do answer some peoples questions.

 

You seem to have a mistaken idea  of what a forum is.

Despite you thinking that you are an interrogation officer  and I am a suspect.   I am  here to debate as I wish and with whom I wish.

Up until now, I have been co-operative with you and have answered or advised you where to look,  but you are getting tiresome now as you have before.

If you need questions answering then I suggest you look elsewhere as I choose which questions I answer and from which posters.

I am debating petrol & diesel cars and pollution so,  if you want to play silly boy's,  then do it with someone else.

 

OK, teacher!

[The_DADDY]

18 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

So you still don't know what these 'targets' are - OK then. How are you determining that we aren't reaching them?

 

Do you ever answer anyone else's questions?

Ask him if he thinks I'm a scrounger. 

20 quid says you get an answer 😁

[RollingJ]

1 minute ago, The_DADDY said:

Ask him if he thinks I'm a scrounger. 

20 quid says you get an answer 😁

No doubt! 🤣

[S35_2o21]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

The air in this country has never been cleaner, that's just a fact.

 

>>Every 'freedom' has a cost though.<<

 

In "cost(s)" broadest sense you are undoubtedly correct, e.g. the fact people are allowed to have stairs in their houses maims thousands every year, in fact it actually kills over 500 every year. And the NHS (and the state) picks up the bill for that.

 

Conversely, every regulation / ban / restriction also has a cost.

 

But the default position in a free country should be peopel's freedoms.

Is the air cleaner? Maybe some pollutants have diminished but others haven't. Why do places like London regularly exceed the limits for air pollution if the air is 'cleaner'? There may not be clouds of sulphur, from the steel works, over Attercliffe but the air quality at Tinsley is still dreadful due to the M1 corridor. 

 

Personal freedom has to work alongside personal responsibility. We don't live in a bubble of no consequence. Despite what right wing libertarians would have us believe, we do live in a community. This means that other people are impacted by each other's actions. 

[Chekhov]

5 hours ago, S35_2o21 said:

Is the air cleaner? Maybe some pollutants have diminished but others haven't. Why do places like London regularly exceed the limits for air pollution if the air is 'cleaner'? There may not be clouds of sulphur, from the steel works, over Attercliffe but the air quality at Tinsley is still dreadful due to the M1 corridor. 

 

Personal freedom has to work alongside personal responsibility. We don't live in a bubble of no consequence. Despite what right wing libertarians would have us believe, we do live in a community. This means that other people are impacted by each other's actions. 

You show me any evidence that the air in London is anything other than less polluted than it has ever been.

Having said that I am in favour of speed limits on motorways to reduce pollution in particularly polluted areas (but it'd have to be 50 not 60 as most most trucks never go that fast anyway) as I do not see a reasonable speed limit as being a particularly significant reduction on people's personal freedoms.

 

>>Personal freedom has to work alongside personal responsibility. <<

 

I absolutely agree. People should take responsibility for themselves more and stop getting others, most notably the state, to do it for them, particularly when the states response is inevitably more restrictions on other people's lives. What happened during Covid was the best ever example of that (censored) but any number of other examples spring to mind, e.g. who are the state to tax "high fat" foods in order to discourage obesity ? I am not fat or an alcoholic so why should I have to pay more for my Cheesecake or my bottle of Malbec ? Even more so when the state tries to have it both ways, "we're so touchy feely we don't want to risk upsetting anyone" so nobody can even call fat people fat anymore. Is fatness a protected characteristic yet ? It will be sooner or later, you see.

The bottom line is that we are supposed to live in a free country, so, unless the balance in any particular situation is hugely in favour of banning or restricting something then the default position should be not to ban or restrict it.

[Guest]

Chekhov   -   your post ignored again as you are still referencing  covid in every post you make..  this is about petrol & diesel & pollution.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Organgrinder