How Will People Charge Electric Cars If They Dont Have A Driveway

[dave_the_m]

The areas in Sheffield where people typically have to do on-street parking are often full of Victorian terraces. The roads there are mostly full of parked cars, with very little spare land about. I can't see where space for all these new cars parks are going to be found for everyone to move their cars into.

[tinfoilhat]

1 hour ago, dave_the_m said:

The areas in Sheffield where people typically have to do on-street parking are often full of Victorian terraces. The roads there are mostly full of parked cars, with very little spare land about. I can't see where space for all these new cars parks are going to be found for everyone to move their cars into.

They'll charge them somewhere else. You don't fill your car up with petrol at home. 

 

Now if you're living in said terrace house and doing 200 miles a day - yes, it's going to be a big problem but considering the average journey is, what, 5 miles, you can "fill up" when you do the big shop at asda.

[Resident]

15 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

They'll charge them somewhere else. You don't fill your car up with petrol at home. 

 

Now if you're living in said terrace house and doing 200 miles a day - yes, it's going to be a big problem but considering the average journey is, what, 5 miles, you can "fill up" when you do the big shop at asda.

Yeah, because people are going to want to leave their car far from home to charge it

 

Or we could just step back, take a long hard look and realise what some already know. Plug-in battery EVs aren't a large scale viable solution & we, as a world, should be concentrating on the viable solution we already have but is being ignored. 

 

A vehicle with the ability to generate it's own electrical energy to power the drive motors that uses a fuel that can be replenished in 4-5mins (dependant on tank size). A power plant that has been used in at least 2 models of car since 2007 by a Japanese manufacturer. 

 

I am, of course, talking about Hydrogen Fuel Cell. 

 

But we'll keep pushin plug in EVs for the next 15 years then the government will tell us that they're bad for the environment and then push another form of engine, possibly HFC. 

[butlers]

Hydrogen cars have problem that the fuel.is much more expensive and it's tied to fossil fuel extraction.

Then there's the issue the fuel tanks are at either 5000 or 10000 psi. 

 

[tinfoilhat]

3 hours ago, Resident said:

Yeah, because people are going to want to leave their car far from home to charge it

 

Or we could just step back, take a long hard look and realise what some already know. Plug-in battery EVs aren't a large scale viable solution & we, as a world, should be concentrating on the viable solution we already have but is being ignored. 

 

A vehicle with the ability to generate it's own electrical energy to power the drive motors that uses a fuel that can be replenished in 4-5mins (dependant on tank size). A power plant that has been used in at least 2 models of car since 2007 by a Japanese manufacturer. 

 

I am, of course, talking about Hydrogen Fuel Cell. 

 

But we'll keep pushin plug in EVs for the next 15 years then the government will tell us that they're bad for the environment and then push another form of engine, possibly HFC. 

Did you read what I put or did you mean to quote somebody else?

[Resident]

3 hours ago, butlers said:

Hydrogen cars have problem that the fuel.is much more expensive and it's tied to fossil fuel extraction.

Then there's the issue the fuel tanks are at either 5000 or 10000 psi. 

 

From the information I can find most HFC cars at present use a 4.7KG @ 5000psi tank & goes about 270-300 miles. 

 

There are 3 main types of hydrogen available, gray, blue and green.

Gray, as you say is linked to fossil fuel extraction, usually via fracked natural gas, however I believe that most if not all of this is used near to where it's produced, by the industry that produced it.

 

Blue is pretty much the same as gray however some of the carbon waste is captured and/or reused in some way

 

Green, which is produced by electrolysis, usually by a renewal energy source. In fact we have a green hydrogen production facility right here in Sheffield, at the AMRC. powered by one of the 2 wind turbines there.

 

Gray is very cheap compared to Green but then Green is still only about £10/kg. 

 

 

So if you pay £10 per kilo of hydrogen, so a 4.7kg fill-up costs about £47. That's 5.74 miles per pound over 270 miles, or 17.4 pence per mile.

 A 40mpg petrol saloon fuelled at £1.26 per litre/£5.73 per gallon would use 8.1 gallons over that same 270 miles, the total cost of which would be £46.43

So an extra 57p and there are efforts in progress to make Green just as cheap as gray/blue so that tank cost will drop. 

 

*Please note: hydrogen prices were just googled and first result chosen at the time of posting.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Resident

[butlers]

My quick Google gave 95 percent of hydrogen is via splitting methane .

Methane is about 200 time worse as a greenhouse gas as well and there is always leakage from extraction to getting to the tank.

 

[butlers]

More to point what's Hydrogen v electric car running costs

[the_bloke]

https://www.nextgreencar.com/fuelcellcars/

 

Quote

For those who are tempted by fuel cell technology, only a few models are commercially available. Unfortunately, these remain expensive compared to similarly sized petrol, diesel or even battery electric rivals. Toyota's Mirai, for example, costs around £60,000 with Toyota expected to lose money on every one sold. This price includes the £4,500 Category 1 UK Plug-in Car Grant (PiCG) which includes the Mirai as an eligible vehicle.

 

In the UK, it isn't yet possible to buy a FCEV outright; Hyundai and Toyota only offer cars on lease. While this is mainly due to the limited refuelling infrastructure, it also protects owners from any technical and durability issues associated with a new technology.

 

Hydrogen is sold in kilograms rather than volume (litres or gallons), and current prices are around £10 to £15 per kg. As the Mirai's tank holds approximately 5 kg, a full hydrogen refill would cost between £50 and £75 meaning that hydrogen FCEVS are more expensive per distance able to travel than both internal combustion vehicles and BEVs. With increased hydrogen use though, costs are likely to come down in the future. Manufacturers are removing this problem though by incorporating fuel costs into the cost of the lease. Therefore, you won't need to pay anything 'at the pump' and the entire motoring costs are paid in one lump sum each month.

I think it's safe to say fuel cells aren't going to be a viable solution any time soon. This article also contradicts the claim that hydrogen is cheaper to run than petrol per mile.

[butlers]

RAC reckon on cost per mile of hydrogen is currently 4 times the cost of electric.

Did not know the biggest hydrogen producing plant in Europe(?) is in Sheffield.