Was Their Any Plans To Build An Underground Train Network In The Past?

[Lemmy117]

There was a plan to build some sort of railway in the late 19th century, the City and Suburban railway with a grand station in Fitzalan Square with a line out to Stannington with stations at Bramall Lane, Endcliffe, Fulwood, Stannington, returning via Malin Bridge/Walkley and Neepsend. There is an article on another Sheffield history site.

In the 1970's along with the Minitram proposal there was the idea for a loop line from Sheffield Midland to a station under the Town Hall.

 

Nigel L

 

[hillsbro]

1 hour ago, Lemmy117 said:

There was a plan to build some sort of railway in the late 19th century, the City and Suburban railway with a grand station in Fitzalan Square with a line out to Stannington with stations at Bramall Lane, Endcliffe, Fulwood, Stannington, returning via Malin Bridge/Walkley and Neepsend....

Yes, this was in 1899 - an article appeared in the "Sheffield and Rotherham Independent" of 3 June 1899. It's a long article but here is a link to a scan of the heading, a plan of the proposed route etc. More recently, I remember "The Star" publishing an article in the 1960s about a proposal for an underground "circle line" servng the central part of the city. It included an artist's impression of the entrance to "Fargate Station" etc., but nothing more was heard of it. https://ibb.co/8m94RYN

Edited April 28, 2021 by hillsbro
Speling... :-(

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Despite all the above, Sheffield does have some railway tunnels.

At one time a couple of decades ago, Su a.m. trains from Midland (LMS) did go underground and emerge via somewhere near Victoria so as to use LNER lines and avoid railway maintenance Su-only line closures.

[GabrielC]

9 hours ago, HeHasRisen said:

Coming back to this....the only known plan in Manchester was the 1971 Picc-Vic tunnel proposal, by the old transport authority (SelNec), to link the main two train stations in Manchester by underground tunnel. There was never a plan for a surburban underground network as far as I know, can you provide a link?

 

In which case Sheffield did not need to copy this, as Sheffield didnt have two major railway stations in the city centre, Sheffield Victoria closed in the first few days of 1970.

Manchester council did produce a map of sorts showing possible routes that could be added on at an later date. A few years ago a group of people went underground and found the part built tunnel which was basically a concrete shell with an block off entrance. 

 

If you did build an underground I think the Midland Station would be a popular stop then the route would go under Park Hill  towards the East End. Like you have said Victoria was gone by 1970 depending on demand perhaps a small station could have been built on the Wicker.

Edited April 28, 2021 by GabrielC

[hauxwell]

Newcastle and Gateshead Tyne and Wear Metro have stations underground. The stations and underground tunnels run under the town centre of Gateshead, Newcastle and surrounding area.  When they extended the Metro to Sunderland they built underground stations and tunnels in the centre of the town.   

When I think about it the underground stations were opened round about 1980 which was forward thinking at that time. When using the Metro there is no getting stuck in traffic in the city centres or cars breaking down on the train lines, but having said that the Metro trains are old, so from time to time they break down and it is chaos if it happens in the rush hour.  

 

As someone has already said on here it would be virtually impossible to build underground in Sheffield because of the hills.  I’m no engineer but if they can build roads and pedestrian and cycle lanes as they have done up here underneath the River Tyne I can’t see why they can’t go through the hills in Sheffield.  

The problem would be the cost and would it get used and pay its way.  

[Lemmy117]

3 hours ago, Jeffrey Shaw said:

Despite all the above, Sheffield does have some railway tunnels.

At one time a couple of decades ago, Su a.m. trains from Midland (LMS) did go underground and emerge via somewhere near Victoria so as to use LNER lines and avoid railway maintenance Su-only line closures.

The only line out of the Midland that go anywhere near the LNER line is the route north that goes via Nunnery Junction and onto Darnall and Worksop, still in use.  There was the 'Fiery Jack' tunnel that ran from Wicker Goods up to Bridgehouses under Spital Hill, but that closed before 1950.

When the line south of Sheffield was four tracks there was the 'dive under' that allowed trains from the fast lines to arrive in platform one by going under the slow lines. It descended near what is now Amey's Olive Grove depot and popped up near East Bank tunnel. The remains can be seen as the coach washing plant on the incline just outside the station, the bit near Olive Grove having been filled in years ago. All these of course are on the main railway, so not part of a separate suburban line.

 

Nigel L

[Lemmy117]

48 minutes ago, hauxwell said:

but having said that the Metro trains are old, so from time to time they break down and it is chaos if it happens in the rush hour.

 

The Metro is getting some new rolling stock st the moment, so that should improve reliability, in fact the old depot is being demolished and a new one constructed nearby.

[hauxwell]

8 hours ago, Lemmy117 said:

The Metro is getting some new rolling stock st the moment, so that should improve reliability, in fact the old depot is being demolished and a new one constructed nearby.

Yes I know they are hoping to get some new trains and there has been photos of the new ones in the local newspapers. They  are frightened to turn the engines off the old ones when they are in the depot overnight  in case they won’t start the next day.  However people living near the depot have complained to Newcastle  council that they are kept awake because of the noise from the trains so I would say the new ones are long overdue.

 

Didn’t know about the old depot being demolished tho.  

 

 

 

[HeHasRisen]

12 hours ago, GabrielC said:

Manchester council did produce a map of sorts showing possible routes that could be added on at an later date. A few years ago a group of people went underground and found the part built tunnel which was basically a concrete shell with an block off entrance. 

This was probably the void area they found under the Arndale Centre which they put in "just in case".  Certainly there was no concrete plan for a surburban underground network, the plan was to run through trains through the tunnel but these would have been off existing railway lines at the time. Indeed some of these lines became a Metrolink line eventually.

Edited April 29, 2021 by HeHasRisen

[Steptoad]

I remember many years ago (the 1970s) a family friend was involved in a proposal to build and underground train line from Sheffield Midland to the bottom of The Moor. I believe it got as far as models of the proposed work going on display in the town hall.

 

However as I said, this was the [early] 70s and I was a pre-teen so my memory might be exaggerating things.