Photo Id To Vote - Voter Suppression Or Election Fraud Prevention?

[apelike]

2 hours ago, Jeffrey Shaw said:

But one cannot obtain such cards- or any bank account, in fact- without proving one's ID.

Nor a passport; nor a driving licence; nor any sort of investment or credit facility.

Why should voting be different?

It shouldn't be. The only difference is that in those cases fraud can actually be proven because the people have been caught. In this case fraud may well have taken place in elections and gone undetected so this is an attempt to prevent any chance of that ever happening and also make the voters feel that it cannot happen in the future. As you know preventative measures and laws are common whether things happen or not and this is no different. 

 

Being able to go to a voting station and vote by just giving your name and address is wrong.

Edited May 19, 2021 by apelike

[El Cid]

26 minutes ago, apelike said:

It shouldn't be. The only difference is that in those cases fraud can actually be proven because the people have been caught. In this case fraud may well have taken place in elections and gone undetected so this is an attempt to prevent any chance of that ever happening and also make the voters feel that it cannot happen in the future. As you know preventative measures and laws are common whether things happen or not and this is no different. 

 

Being able to go to a voting station and vote by just giving your name and address is wrong.

You are not comparing the same things, I have got a postal vote for my union this week.

Should they confirm my ID at some point?

What do you think about elections that have a 30% turnout?

The Tories wanted to ban strikes with low voter turnout.

If 10,000 or 10 million people are voting, the 6 people proscucuted for voter fraud is insignificant. Increasing voter turnout would make elections fairer, than stopping 10 poeple from committing voter fraud.

[apelike]

12 minutes ago, El Cid said:

You are not comparing the same things, I have got a postal vote for my union this week.

Should they confirm my ID at some point?

Nor are you as this is not about postal voting.

 

[the_bloke]

I'm convinced some people in this thread forget that you need to register to be able to vote in the first place, and as part of doing so you need documentary evidence to prove who you are. 

 

I hope they change the rules for that to only allow photo ID, instead of the current system which allows a mismash of different documents to prove your ID. If you then need photo ID to prove who you are on the day, then it tightens up both ends of the process.

[RollingJ]

18 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

I'm convinced some people in this thread forget that you need to register to be able to vote in the first place, and as part of doing so you need documentary evidence to prove who you are. 

 

I hope they change the rules for that to only allow photo ID, instead of the current system which allows a mismash of different documents to prove your ID. If you then need photo ID to prove who you are on the day, then it tightens up both ends of the process.

👍👍

[trastrick]

The citizen vote is one of the most important privileges and responsibilities of citizens in a  democracy.

 

It can shape the destiny of the country for the generations that follow, for better or for worse.

 

The argument for or against photo ID mainly reflects a left vs right political divide that manifests itself in all other hotly debated political issues, such as BREXIT.

 

The main arguments against seem to be the cost, and voter suppression, and lack of evidence of illegal voting

 

Lack of Evidence of Voter Fraud.

 

We live in a society that has both an underground economy, as well as the official legal economy. The International Monetary Fund Report 2017, estimates that the U.K.'s underground shadow economy comprises up to 9.4% of all activity. But in my personal experience working and in England and Scotland, it's my opinion that it is far greater than what is reported. BBC seems obsessed with it in Poland, India, and other countries, but I've seen no references to the U.K.

 

"The underground economy refers to money earned from illicit activities like prostitution and the sale of illegal drugs. But it also broadly refers to any unreported income, such as undeclared tips or gambling winnings, or under-the-table payments made to laborers like house painters and construction workers, whose wages may go unreported to tax authorities. Unreported income paid to migrant workers or those without valid visas or work permits also contributes to the underground economy". (www.investopedia.com)

 

This illegal activity in personal economics is seldom seen as an issue reported in the press, and the same thing applies to illegal political activity such as fraudulent voting. Indeed there is an all out campaign by the left, against identifying such. They blithely tell us there is no problem.

 

Voter Suppression.

 

One side of the debate assumes that if voter ID is mandated, it will only have a deleterious effect on left wing voters, but who must drive, shop on credit and bank, and travel with ID, but not vote. Banking, licensing of activities, travel, shopping on credit, or obtaining, professional and academic qualifications is not considered "consumer suppression", so why should photo ID be considered "voter suppression?

 

The Cost

 

In many Western democracies, there are increasing instances of delegitimizing election outcomes, as with BREXXIT and in the past two U.S. Presidential Elections, which are seen by the losing side as fraudulent victories, and subject to weeks, moths and even years of recount demands. The third recount, of the last election is now taking place in the U.S. and it's doubtful that it will, like all the others ever satisfy the losing half of the population.

 

So what is the price a country will pay in loss of confidence, by half the population of a country, that they even have a legitimate government?

 

We have seen it. Rioting, looting arson and a complete breakdown of trust in governments and their government agencies.

 

That's a cost that can never be monetized.

 

Political parties spend a huge amount organizing "get out the vote" campaigns, for the lazy, housebound, disabled or even disinterest populations.

 

So why not a similar drive to "get your voter ID"?

 

Voter photo ID is a basic common sense idea that can solve many of the above problems.

 

What price full confidence that your government is legitimate?

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Another issue is that some ethnic minority voters may sometimes not be enabled to use the vote if an elder member of the family or group insists on using everyone's as a block vote. Improved voter ID should put a stop to this.

[altus]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey Shaw said:

Another issue is that some ethnic minority voters may sometimes not be enabled to use the vote if an elder member of the family or group insists on using everyone's as a block vote. Improved voter ID should put a stop to this.

Explain how that works with in person voter impersonation fraud. There is no block voting and the same person would have to vote in the same polling station multiple times claiming to be a different person each time.

 

The real issue with electoral fraud in this country is not in person voter impersonation fraud but pork-barrelling - Ballot rigging is so last year. There are now new ways of buying votes

Quote

Few remark on the audacity of a government that seeks to suppress genuine voters by demanding photo IDs at polling stations, while getting away with perpetrating the oldest and most effective political swindle of them all.

Perhaps the government should try harder to avoid “accusations of pork-barrelling”, an overly genteel report from the House of Lords quoted a witness as saying last week. The Commons public accounts committee was more tough-minded last year when it said ministers directed money from their £3.6bn towns fund to affluent constituencies, despite their officials warning that they were “the very lowest priority”. Even the admirably forthright committee didn’t realise that the government was practising electoral fraud.

 

[Mr Allen]

Meh, I've voted every time in local and National elections, and remain for Brexit 5 years ago, and have never needed my Polling card, probably because I live literally across the road from my local Polling Station at Netherthorpe Junior school so they know me as I've lived in the area nearly 15 years.

 

 

[butlers]

Voter fraud and undermining the legitimagcy was the siren call of a semi facist in the US.

Reality is a non event

 

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-wisconsin-election-2020-government-and-politics-daa3ac227c936d7fc038996af6e27cbe

Edited May 23, 2021 by butlers