Who Needs A Gun?

[Jim117]

On 25/05/2022 at 12:43, hackey lad said:

That’s true . After Dunblane the crackdown on sensible gun owners here was ridiculous . It is far easier now to obtain / rent an illegal gun 

True. In fact the legislation in place at the time should have resulted in the perp having his firearm certification revoked. The subsequent crackdown on legal ownership was purely a knee jerk reaction in response to the press. Now we have a proliferation of illegal weapons on the streets which would seem to vindicate one of the assertions of the US pro gun lobby. Namely that the removal of the right to bear arms for law abiding citizens wouldn’t prevent criminals from carrying them. Don’t get me wrong, there’s obviously something wrong with a system that allows a disturbed teenager to purchase a semi auto rifle and the general casual attitude towards safety and secure storage that seems to be prevalent in the states but what’s the answer to the problem? I can’t see the yanks giving up their guns anytime soon and the situation will be even more complicated due to varying state laws. Another complication mentioned on here is the presence of dangerous wildlife which isn’t usually an issue in the UK. So to ask a question, if anyone on here was to relocate to the US, would you become a gun owner? For myself I think the answer would probably be yes.

[altus]

On 26/05/2022 at 16:30, trastrick said:

You make my point.

Your "point", as always, is to try to shoehorn blaming the libs for everything.

 

Quote

You gonna let the looters and rapists take what they want from your home?

 

You may, but I'd keep a gun to protect my loved ones, "just to be safe" 

That wouldn't help in the US where, because of the proliferation of guns, the cops burst in with a no knock warrant and shoot the gun holding occupants defending themselves/their property only discover after they've killed everyone that they didn't bother to check they had the right address.

[Magilla]

On 27/05/2022 at 16:51, altus said:

Your "point", as always, is to try to shoehorn blaming the libs for everything.

It seems the "actual point" hasn't been so spectacularly missed by the majority of Americans...

 

Two years after George Floyd killing, Americans back police reform:

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3503705-two-years-after-george-floyd-killing-americans-back-police-reform-gallup/

"Just over two years after the police killing of George Floyd, the vast majority of Americans say they support changes to policing."

 

....they probably read beyond the headline and made some effort to understand the issues though

 

Quote

That wouldn't help in the US where, because of the proliferation of guns, the cops burst in with a no knock warrant and shoot the gun holding occupants defending themselves/their property only discover after they've killed everyone that they didn't bother to check they had the right address.

Maybe they should take a page out of the Dominican Republic playbook...

 

A license is needed for owning a gun and a second license to carry a gun.

You must undergo psychiatric, shooting range, and doping tests to obtain a firearm possession certificate.

You must be at least 30 years of age and acquire the gun in an authorized shop.

The maximum personal ownership of two firearms.

No automatic weapons of any kind.

 

Official policy has the the clear stated aim of controlling firearm ownership with the objective of gradually disarming the civilian population.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Magilla

[Magilla]

On 26/05/2022 at 13:03, trastrick said:

(Asked of those dissatisfied with U.S. gun policy) Would you like to see gun laws in this country made more strict, less strict or remain as they are?

"asked of those dissatisfied with U.S. gun policy"...

 

...a more nuanced interpretation of the same data:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/

 

On 26/05/2022 at 13:03, trastrick said:

Well it depends on where you live.If you live around grizzly bears and cougars, or if you live in a major U.S. City.

...and, on balance and more crucially, whether it's a red state or a major U.S. City in a red state...

 

The Red State Murder Problem:

https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-red-state-murder-problem

 

States with the most gun violence share one trait:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/26/politics/gun-violence-data-what-matters/index.html

 

Gun deaths by state, ranked:

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun-deaths-by-state-ranked/

 

...a common theme?

 

On 26/05/2022 at 13:03, trastrick said:

And of course the left wing politicians who are pushing the "Defund the Police" movenent!

Sure... but it turns it out didn't mean what you think it means, and most Americans aren't as gullible as you:

 

Two years after George Floyd killing, Americans back police reform:

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3503705-two-years-after-george-floyd-killing-americans-back-police-reform-gallup/

 

 

On 26/05/2022 at 13:03, trastrick said:

So if you are an American, will you put your home and family's safety in the hands of these politicians?

On balance, if you do your home and family is already safer.

 

On 26/05/2022 at 13:03, trastrick said:

Or take some simple legal action to protect protect them?

Which, ironically, substantially increases the chances of something really bad happening to them should the need actually arise!

 

The vast majority of voters on both side favour some common sense gun ownership checks, particularly re: mental health, it's not the politicians you highlight above who consistently block any effort to do so.

[cgksheff]

1 hour ago, Magilla said:

.....................

 

1. A license is needed for owning a gun and a second license to carry a gun.
2. You must undergo psychiatric, shooting range, and doping tests to obtain a firearm possession certificate.
3. You must be at least 30 years of age and acquire the gun in an authorized shop.
4. The maximum personal ownership of two firearms.
5. No automatic weapons of any kind.

...............

 

USA do have significant gun laws.

However, loopholes, state variations and lack of compliance do appear to mess things up.
No-one needs private possession of of an auto/semi-auto firearm and the sales of firearms designed for self-modification need stricter control.

Edited May 29, 2022 by cgksheff

[trastrick]

Once again, "with feeling", Lol

 

Gun laws are only followed by law abiding citizens.

 

Criminals, by definition, don't follow laws.

 

And the revolving door of criminals, with multi lifetime rap sheets. let back on the streets, time after time to terrorize new victims, get more sympathy than their victims.

 

George  Floyd, the poster boy for the BLM protests, riots, lootings and arson, portrayed in the MSM as the "Gentle Giant", was actually a career criminal, 

 

WIKI

 

"Between 1997 and 2005, Floyd served eight jail terms on various charges, including drug possession, theft, and trespass.[6][15]

 

In 2007, Floyd faced charges for aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon; according to investigators, he had entered an apartment by impersonating a water department worker and barging in with five other men, then held a pistol to a woman's stomach and searched for items to steal.^[18][40][41] Floyd was arrested three months later during a traffic stop, and victims of the robbery identified him from a photo array.^[41] In 2009, Floyd was sentenced to five years in prison as part of a plea deal,^[40][42][43] and was paroled in January 2013.^[22]

 

That career path choice put him at risk of a confrontation with  possibly legally armed home owners and stressed and untrained cops.

 

So, raise the stakes. Higher penalties for all crimes, no excuses, and the crime rate will go down.

 

An let the suppressionists and authoritarians that have no problem locking down innocent citizens in their homes and closing their businesses, apply the same standards towards criminals activity.

 

Keep everybody safe!

 

Criminals will find guns and knives, we should be dealing with the criminals, not their weapons of choice.

 

As usual IMHO 

 

 

 

[altus]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

Once again, "with feeling", Lol

 

Gun laws are only followed by law abiding citizens.

 

Criminals, by definition, don't follow laws.

Once again, "with rationality".

 

The mentally ill guy who murdered 19 kids and two teachers in Uvalde was a law abiding citizen when he purchased his two assault rifles.

[cuttsie]

2 hours ago, altus said:

Once again, "with rationality".

 

The mentally ill guy who murdered 19 kids and two teachers in Uvalde was a law abiding citizen when he purchased his two assault rifles.

no he was not , any one who needs two ASSAULT guns is not right in the head , why would any one living in a civilised society need a gun of any description 

[altus]

15 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

no he was not , any one who needs two ASSAULT guns is not right in the head , why would any one living in a civilised society need a gun of any description 

Sadly he was. Being "right in the head" is not a requirement for owning a firearm in Texas. It's stupid and it needs changing but, currently, that's the way the law is.

[alchemist]

52 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

no he was not , any one who needs two ASSAULT guns is not right in the head , why would any one living in a civilised society need a gun of any description 

Regardless, he WAS a law abiding citizen when he bought the guns which the shop quite happily sold him.  He dies not being a law abiding citizen but thats academic.

 

NOONE NEEDS an assault weapon, they just get them because they can shoot worth a damn and they want to kill multiple people.  

Edited May 29, 2022 by alchemist
clarity