Difficult To Change, Gender Roles.

[El Cid]

Great that a police force is trying to understand younger females and taking car to get to know white and non-white girls, just hope no one objects to the force just understanding one gender.

"Three teenagers have mentored a trio of the Metropolitan Police's top women officers for six months.  The reverse mentoring project aimed to help officers get closer to communities they serve by gaining fresh perspectives on issues including domestic abuse, knife crime and social inequality."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-58351814

 

[Mister M]

4 hours ago, El Cid said:

Good threads are started when the mind is more relaxed 

 

We had a young man go crazy with a gun in Plymouth this month, membership of a new group came to light, yet I have not seen it discussed anywhere.

My understanding of Jake Davidson is that he joined an online forum for 'involuntary celebates'. From the sounds of it, this incel forum was where he was radicalised. What's particularly tragic is that days and weeks before he murdered others, he was trying to remove himself from the incel forums - perhaps belatedly realising that it wasn't doing his mental health any good.

The news reports on these incel groups is that they are peopled by those with very low self esteem, who have a fixed idea of what an ideal man and woman is, and Jake Davidson felt he couldn't match up to this ideal, and that was why he thought couldn't achieve a sexual relationship with women. The content of these incel forums are misanthropic and twisted. 

Yes there are some very vulnerable people, like Davidson, who feel that their lives would be improved by having a close relationship with a woman; but it's like that old cliche says- you have to like yourself before you can find other people to like you.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Mister M

[El Cid]

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

The content of these incel forums are misanthropic and twisted.  Yes there are some very vulnerable people, like Davidson, who feel that their lives would be improved by having a close relationship with a woman; but it's like that old cliche says- you have to like yourself before you can find other people to like you.

Many specalist groups on social media reinforce peoples behaviour and encourage a certain type of behaviour. A stamp collecting or litter picking group will encourage that behaviour. Those groups cannot be stopped, although I read today that China are limiting childrens online gaming. Can Governments do more?

Society has moved from men being in overall control, in the home and in government, to equallity.

[Mister M]

33 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Many specalist groups on social media reinforce peoples behaviour and encourage a certain type of behaviour. A stamp collecting or litter picking group will encourage that behaviour. Those groups cannot be stopped, although I read today that China are limiting childrens online gaming. Can Governments do more?

Society has moved from men being in overall control, in the home and in government, to equallity.

I'm not sufficiently expert in internet technology or law to know if these online groups can be stopped.

However while I agree that women have somewhat more equality than they did, (though there is some way to go), I'm not sure of the relevance of gender roles to incel groups and Jake Davisdson. 

Even if we could transport ourselves back to Victorian England (and why would we want to do that), when women were basically the property of their husbands, would Davidson and other incellers be any more successful at initiating and maintaining relationships? I doubt it. Not healthy relationships anyway.

I think it's less to do with gender roles, and more to do with poor mental health / social skills

Edited August 30, 2021 by Mister M

[El Cid]

53 minutes ago, Mister M said:

I'm not sure of the relevance of gender roles to incel groups and Jake Davisdson. 

Even if we could transport ourselves back to Victorian England (and why would we want to do that), when women were basically the property of their husbands, would Davidson and other incellers be any more successful at initiating and maintaining relationships? I doubt it. Not healthy relationships anyway.

I think it's less to do with gender roles, and more to do with poor mental health / social skills

Perhaps my 60+ year old friend and his relationship has little to do with a 20 something killer, although their beliefs might be similar.

Can we improve young peoples mental health? We can if we priorities it.

Do young people have poorer social skills because of social media or gamimg, I think so. The Chineese government are adressing it, our government arent even thinking about it.

[Mister M]

19 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Perhaps my 60+ year old friend and his relationship has little to do with a 20 something killer, although their beliefs might be similar.

Can we improve young peoples mental health? We can if we priorities it.

Do young people have poorer social skills because of social media or gamimg, I think so. The Chineese government are adressing it, our government arent even thinking about it.

Interesting points....I work with young people - between 16 - 25; I find that those who struggle with making relationships gravitate towards gaming and computers anyway, to fill that void.

With regards to Government, in the wake of the killings in Plymouth, the Education Secretary Gavin Williamson stated that he's going to 'tackle incel culture' by introducing it as some kind of lesson, like you'd learn algebra or grammar 

I think that misses the point by a county mile. Someone like Jake Davidson would probably not have even thought of himself at 15 / 16 as struggling with relationship difficulties. Probably it's the result of his interaction with others after he left school that may have alerted him that he was having difficulties. To tackle that there needs to be investment in community resources, which sadly over the years, have been cut to the bone.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Mister M

[El Cid]

42 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Interesting points....I work with young people - between 16 - 25; I find that those who struggle with making relationships gravitate towards gaming and computers anyway, to fill that void.

Having watched Proffessor Winston in "Child of our Time", there was a young boy that was into computer games, I saw it as gaming being responsible for the lack of social interaction.

Ethan loves playing computer games but struggles at school and has been diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and Asperger syndrome. Ethan had a problem with his speech which affected his ability to make friends in school, but it resolved itself soon after.

[Anna B]

9 hours ago, andyofborg said:

What does he actually blame women for?   For not wanting a relationship with him? I'm sure there is more to him than the few sentences you have used here, but from what you describe he doesn't sound particuarly appealing.  

In what way has it changed? The world has changed, and many of the jobs which might in "olden times" be considered as male no longer exist but the older generation sat back and let that happen and during the first and second world wars most of those jobs were done by women. Other than that, what else is different?

 

I'm surprised you need to ask. Roles were well defined in the past. Men were the dominant sex, in charge of everything, paid more and women were expected to be subservient. Even if they didn't have high powered jobs men expected to be the boss at home. That doesn't necessarily mean they were, but women had to be cleverer and tactical in getting their own way so as not to bruise the fragile male ego.

 

All that has changed and some men simply can't handle it - that tender male ego again. The rise of women has emasculated them, and women have lost the knack of pandering to the male ego and treating it with care to achieve what they want. Many will say hooray to that, but I'm not so sure. Surely emotional intelligence in both sexes means being aware of other's weak spots and treating them carefully and with respect. 

 

The world certainly has changed, but people's innermost selves are probably much the same as they've always been; still full of fears and anxieties.  Good parenting is vital, to ensure a strong sense of self confidence irrespective of sex or status into children from an early age, so that they are comfortable and relaxed in their own skin, and can meet all comers as equals.   

Edited August 30, 2021 by Anna B

[hackey lad]

4 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I'm surprised you need to ask. Roles were well defined in the past. Men were the dominant sex, in charge of everything, paid more and women were expected to be subservient. Even if they didn't have high powered jobs men expected to be the boss at home. That doesn't necessarily mean they were, but women had to be cleverer and tactical in getting their own way so as not to bruise the fragile male ego.

 

All that has changed and some men simply can't handle it - that tender male ego again. The rise of women has emasculated them, and women have lost the knack of pandering to the male ego and treating it with care to achieve what they want. Many will say hooray to that, but I'm not so sure. Surely emotional intelligence in both sexes means being aware of other's weak spots and treating them carefully and with respect. 

 

Good parenting is vital, to instill a strong sense of self confidence irrespective of sex or status into children from an early age, so that they are comfortable and relaxed in their own skin, and can meet all comers as equals.   

Them were  the days , 

[Mister M]

26 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

Them were  the days , 

Not for many women I would imagine.....