New Road Needed To City Centre

[Mr Bloke]

10 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

It’s not just this council, it’s the same everywhere. Flyovers and underpasses are largely seen as outdated, undesirable and generally a thing of the past for very obvious reasons. Roads can be major barriers to what makes thriving places - people!

Hmmm...

Well I've read some rubbish on here but this one's got to be the most blinkered yet...

[ECCOnoob]

17 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

It’s not just this council, it’s the same everywhere. Flyovers and underpasses are largely seen as outdated, undesirable and generally a thing of the past for very obvious reasons. Roads can be major barriers to what makes thriving places - people!

But people need to get around. Goods need to be transported. Services need to be maintained. Utilities have to be installed an upgraded. That ain't been done on the back of the bike.

 

Even some of the most progressive cities particularly in the Nordic areas  (even those offering totally free public transportation or heavy infrastructure involving cycling)  still have great investment in their road systems to support the same.

 

This is not one or the other and I think your comments are way off the mark.

 

Flyovers and underpasses are the way to keep transport out of the close-knit central area and get it moving in, out and around far more  efficiently.

 

If what you see as "outdated, undesirable and a thing of the past" is reflected in the rest of the council planning department it explains so much about why we have the incompetent mess of a road system we have now

Edited September 21, 2021 by ECCOnoob

[Annie Bynnol]

12 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

But people need to get around. Goods need to be transported. Services need to be maintained. Utilities have to be installed an upgraded. That ain't been done on the back of the bike.

 

Even some of the most progressive cities particularly in the Nordic areas  (even those offering totally free public transportation or heavy infrastructure involving cycling)  still have great investment in their road systems to support the same.

 

This is not one or the other and I think your comments are way off the mark.

 

Flyovers and underpasses are the way to keep transport out of the close-knit central area and get it moving in, out and around far more  efficiently.

 

If what you see as "outdated, undesirable and a thing of the past" is reflected in the rest of the council planning department it explains so much about why we have the incompetent mess of a road system we have now

This vision should be dated  pre 1970s

The "flyovers and underpasses" era was an attempt to separate different types of users, instead it created an unlivable city and were became deeply unpopular.

 

In the 1970s new roads were driven through the City destroying open and potential open spaces and walls of impassable concrete dividing up the city. Isolating communities and businesses.

These new roads were of no benefit to those who lived or worked  in the city, they just generated more traffic and an exodus out of the centre of people and businesses into ever expanding suburbs.

 

City centres are very different now, far more populated, a far wider range of employment and associated services. People want to live there. Their money will help regenerate the City

No Nordic or other western European city centre in their right mind follow a "flyovers and underpasses" policy, indeed the removal of these is creating new opportunities.

.

 

[Longcol]

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

But people need to get around. Goods need to be transported. Services need to be maintained. Utilities have to be installed an upgraded. That ain't been done on the back of the bike.

 

Even some of the most progressive cities particularly in the Nordic areas  (even those offering totally free public transportation or heavy infrastructure involving cycling)  still have great investment in their road systems to support the same.

 

This is not one or the other and I think your comments are way off the mark.

 

Flyovers and underpasses are the way to keep transport out of the close-knit central area and get it moving in, out and around far more  efficiently.

 

If what you see as "outdated, undesirable and a thing of the past" is reflected in the rest of the council planning department it explains so much about why we have the incompetent mess of a road system we have now

Which explains the number of times I used to be sat in traffic on the elevated A57(M) in Manchester and the  A58(M) in Leeds which had both elevated sections and underpasses 😎

 

One of the good things about living in Walkley and Commonside was the ability to walk into the City Centre without having the route blocked by an urban motorway.

[ads36]

13 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

But people need to get around. Goods need to be transported. Services need to be maintained. Utilities have to be installed an upgraded. That ain't been done on the back of the bike.

can you please point at the bit where *anyone* has said we need to bin all vehicular transport ?

 

merely invest in the alternatives.

 

no city has ever 'beaten' congestion by making it easier to drive. Many have tried, many keep trying, it's a 100% failure rate.

 

People already do use the bus, they already do cycle, they already do use the tram, they already do walk. We don't need much of a nudge for those numbers to increase. The more we invest, the bigger the nudge.

 

more people *not* driving - there's your increased capacity for those journey where a vehicle is necessary.

 

Sheffield's road network is pretty good, it's simply full of cars. One more lane here and there won't fix anything. 

[dutch]

This topic is a joke. I have driven through several American and Canadian and Asian cities. Long time ago and even then they where a lot worse than Sheffield has ever been.

I remember approaching one of them around evening rush hour and all of a sudden the sky above became one black bubble from the exhaust fumes.

Sheffield roads are so much better but you do not know this until you have seen really worse. 

Keep on wasting energy miserable dreaming for better. I will use my energy happy Sheffield has far nicer better roads than other places I have seen before. 

Only thing Sheffield is worse at are its potholes but with some decent suspension and tires thats ok.

[Bargepole23]

33 minutes ago, ads36 said:

can you please point at the bit where *anyone* has said we need to bin all vehicular transport ?

 

merely invest in the alternatives.

 

no city has ever 'beaten' congestion by making it easier to drive. Many have tried, many keep trying, it's a 100% failure rate.

 

People already do use the bus, they already do cycle, they already do use the tram, they already do walk. We don't need much of a nudge for those numbers to increase. The more we invest, the bigger the nudge.

 

more people *not* driving - there's your increased capacity for those journey where a vehicle is necessary.

 

Sheffield's road network is pretty good, it's simply full of cars. One more lane here and there won't fix anything. 

Exactly this. Same tired arguments are churned out time and again, "What about such and such who needs to carry xyz to do their job, can't be done on a bus etc etc". One size doesn't fit all and nobody has ever suggested it should or can.

[Mr Bloke]

32 minutes ago, ads36 said:

can you please point at the bit where *anyone* has said we need to bin all vehicular transport ?

 

merely invest in the alternatives.

 

no city has ever 'beaten' congestion by making it easier to drive. Many have tried, many keep trying, it's a 100% failure rate.

 

People already do use the bus, they already do cycle, they already do use the tram, they already do walk. We don't need much of a nudge for those numbers to increase. The more we invest, the bigger the nudge.

 

more people *not* driving - there's your increased capacity for those journey where a vehicle is necessary.

 

Sheffield's road network is pretty good, it's simply full of cars. One more lane here and there won't fix anything. 

Hmmm...

I think you've just put your finger on it...

 

... the roads are so good that too many people enjoy using them!

 

What we need is to dig a few of them up leaving massive potholes and turning the whole network into a mass of single lane bridleways.

 

People will immediately decide that they're not going to risk damage to their brand new Duracell powered people carrier and will instead opt for a far more reliable trip on public transport - which presumably will also need to be downgraded to donkey taxi to cope with the conditions...

[RollingJ]

31 minutes ago, Mr Bloke said:

Hmmm...

I think you've just put your finger on it...

 

... the roads are so good that too many people enjoy using them!

 

What we need is to dig a few of them up leaving massive potholes and turning the whole network into a mass of single lane bridleways.

 

People will immediately decide that they're not going to risk damage to their brand new Duracell powered people carrier and will instead opt for a far more reliable trip on public transport - which presumably will also need to be downgraded to donkey taxi to cope with the conditions...

As usual, you get it spot on @Mr Bloke👍🤣

[Tony]

16 hours ago, Findlay said:

We don't need any more roads, we need people to use them more efficiently and plan start times for large businesses so they don't clog up roads at peak times.

Agreed, and if I could add that this is entirely in the council's gift to;

1. Stagger school-day start and finish times,
2. Stagger term start / end dates,
3. Create and enforce no-drive zones around schools at the start and end of the day. 

A genuinely creative council might even have schools operating seven days a week. 

 

They would also ensure that every school had a walk / cycle policy with facilities on the premises to encourage it while implementing policies and traffic control measures that make it as inconvenient as possible for kids to be driven to school.