New Road Needed To City Centre

[nightrider]

13 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

Great, this is about to become another motorist vs cyclist thread.

Well it should not be. I drive a lot. I like to cycle. So I am both. The problem is not cyclists vs motorists - the problem is a substantial minority of drivers who are aggressive and angry all the time. The latter really need banning from roads to be honest - we are far too liberal about peoples right to use a machine that can easily kill when not used in a safe manner.

 

btw I also walk a lot and cannot recall even one incident of a cyclist endangering me. I have lost count of the near misses caused by drivers though when I am out walking or driving in my car.

Edited September 20, 2021 by nightrider

[ads36]

congestion gets a little bit worse every year.

 

we live in a city, there isn't space for more roads. 

 

we need to improve the car-alternatives : trams/buses/cycling - they're all more efficient ways of moving people (in terms of space used, per person moved)

 

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT DRIVING WILL BE BANNED !

 

clearly, some people don't want to hear this. I'm confident that even total, daily,  barely-moving-gridlock would not convince these people that we could maybe just *try* improving an alternative. The arguments are always the same, we need more lanes, we need fewer pedestrian crossings, fewer cycle lanes, we need to raise speed limits, we need tunnels, overpasses, more and free parking, etc. all of the suggestions are designed to encourage more driving, they're doomed to fail.

 

we've spent the last 70 years doing exactly that, all of those things, at *huge* expense, in terms of cost, space, and our health. it will never be enough. If we continue to prioritise car-use, in terms of funding, space, priority at junctions, etc. people will continue to choose driving, over the run-down alternatives.

 

The real world of city driving cannot ever look like the tv adverts, I'm sorry to have to tell you this - but i also know that you're not listening.

Edited September 20, 2021 by ads36

[Bargepole23]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

Fair points, but can I respectfully ask what you are doing personally Bargepole to reduce your car usage?

Serious question. I don't think anyone drives for fun these days, but because they have no alternative.

Cheap public transport got the boot back in the 70's, and is not so good these days.

You can. I cycle to work each day, about 7 miles each way. Or rather, most days. The other days I either walk or use public transport.

 

I try to walk or use public transport where practical for non work trips. Sometimes, like food shopping, I drive.

 

The point being that one method doesn't fit all needs. No doubt some people need to drive to work in the city, and need their car. I have no problem with that. I'm also certain that plenty could catch a bus but don't want to. They are the journeys we need to shift to a different transport mode.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Bargepole23

[bassett one]

could there not be a tram,taking in huge amounts of people from dronfield,lowedges,batemoor,meadowhead,jordanthorpe ect,this if priced correctly would ease the congestion and buit over or under could solve it.

[AndrewC]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

Fair points, but can I respectfully ask what you are doing personally Bargepole to reduce your car usage?

Serious question. I don't think anyone drives for fun these days, but because they have no alternative.

Cheap public transport got the boot back in the 70's, and is not so good these days.

I can't answer for Bargepole but most people simply need to start reassessing just how 'vital' their car is and questioning whether there really aren't any viable alternatives. You say there is no alternative and to some extent with car-centric suburbanisation and poor public transport we have created many issues for ourselves, however, when people own cars that are sat outside they suddenly start massively lowering their threshold for what they consider necessary use. It's a massive confirmation bias. Once you've chucked a few bags of shopping in the boot of car at the supermarket half a mile from your home, suddenly you wonder how anyone ever managed to carry bags before. Once you've driven a mile in 2-3 minutes instead of having to walk it in 15 you tell yourself you simply don't have time to walk anywhere any more. People get somewhat brainwashed and attached to their cars.

 

There are people who do need cars. Some people all of the time, and a lot of people some of the time; but these are relatively small numbers. People with mobility issues, people who have kids placed in schools several miles from home, people shifting grand pianos etc.; but these really don't make as many trips as you might think. I'd say upwards of 60% of daily car trips could be questioned.

 

Of course, it's a two-way street. People need help in order to start making that decision to ditch the car easier. We need to do a few major things;

• Reverse the trend for low-density, car-centric housing development. We must start building communities which provide as many services/jobs/public transport connections within walking/cycling distance as possible. Barret-home suburbs where you need a car just to get to your solitary local shop need to be discouraged.
• Make walking/cycling more attractive and accessible. Improve the quality of cycle lanes and pavements, and tackle issues like pavement parking and dangerous junctions.
• Improve public transport. I actually get on fairly well with Sheffield's public transport but I'm one person with a specific set of circumstances. Every route needs to be more regular. The tram needs to be expanded. It might seem unlikely but honestly places like Manchester and - to give a more Sheffield-scaled example - Nottingham have shown what good planning and investment can do. Instead, every bus lane is squabbled over in this city, and the supertram can barely afford to maintain what it has now, much less build new routes.

 

The above will take investment & political will. I never thought I'd say the Tories were doing a good job on anything, but they have been pretty sharp on telling councils to take the active travel routes, and making funding available for it. Nottingham has shown that city centre parking levys can work, and businesses aren't averse to them if it means they get investment in local transport in return. It's doable, but people have to start accepting that the car and roadspace devoted to the car is going to be squeezed as a result.

 

People often like to think the car & car drivers are hard-done-by, which is funny, because honestly, when you look at the money and land given over to motoring since WW2, no transport mode has had more resources spent on it. It's had an easy ride.

 

 

Sorry, long post. In answer to the actual thread question, don't expect any actual new road, ever.  Road building in urban areas is a pretty toxic policy even if you've got a nice empty space to use; through a relatively built-up area like Woodseats etc.,? No chance. No one is paying for the land or the tarmac.

 

[carosio]

In a harsh winter, most commuters aren't going to relish bicycles, even electric ones. Moreover, waiting at a bus stop out in the sticks with snow/sleet down back of the neck isn't too pleasant, either.

But it's true that the main roads are heavily congested, apart from  a "window" between 10.30am and 1.30pm. I choose not to drive on arterial roads outside these times, but I'm lucky as I'm retired.

[ads36]

1 hour ago, carosio said:

In a harsh winter, most commuters aren't going to relish bicycles, even electric ones. Moreover, waiting at a bus stop out in the sticks with snow/sleet down back of the neck isn't too pleasant, either.

you'd be surprised then, to hear that a *lot* of regular cycle-commuters positively look forward to the colder weather - myself included, i love the cold commutes!

 

a couple of layers, a half-decent jacket, 5mins gentle pedalling, and you're toasty warm. (most cycling jackets have vents to let cold air *in*)

 

try this : type "copenhagen bike snow" into google, and search for images. 

 

It's obviously not everyone's cup of tea, but the Danes are not uniquely hardy. Remember that actual snow, and grotty winter weather isn't a daily occurrence it's rare, forecast in advance, and usually short-lived.

 

(it's easy to sit in a car, and imagine the horror of being outside, but the people that actually do it don't seem to mind)

Edited September 20, 2021 by ads36

[HeHasRisen]

1 hour ago, bassett one said:

could there not be a tram,taking in huge amounts of people from dronfield,lowedges,batemoor,meadowhead,jordanthorpe ect,this if priced correctly would ease the congestion and buit over or under could solve it.

There could be.

 

There could also be a monorail. Or limousines. Or a maglev train. Or give everyone their own jetpack. Or they could invent a teleporting device to get everyone from Woodseats to Coles Corner in 1.4 seconds. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by HeHasRisen

[AndrewC]

5 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

There could be.

 

There could also be a monorail. Or limousines. Or a maglev train. Or give everyone their own jetpack. Or they could invent a teleporting device to get everyone from Woodseats to Coles Corner in 1.4 seconds. 

Finding the investment and political will to do it would be hard work, but a tram or tram-train extension to the south of Sheffield as bassett one suggests is a genuine possibility and one of the first that tends to get mooted when the people in charge discuss these things (for however a short a time they do discuss it).

 

So it doesn't deserve mocking sarcasm.

[HeHasRisen]

9 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

Finding the investment and political will to do it would be hard work, but a tram or tram-train extension to the south of Sheffield as bassett one suggests is a genuine possibility and one of the first that tends to get mooted when the people in charge discuss these things (for however a short a time they do discuss it).

 

So it doesn't deserve mocking sarcasm.

Well it does. "Built over or under". Under or over what, exactly? A tram route on stilts from Meadowhead to the City Centre, or in a tunnel?

 

Come on now 🤣

 

The only SENSIBLE suggestion would be to extend the Purple route from near its current terminus at Herdings Park, maybe along the double carriageway ring road, but given the tram network has been in place for 27 years without a single extension being made to it (the Tram-Train doesnt count as its using the rail network, not an expansion of the tram network), I cant see this happening.

 

In any case, the OP started off moaning about the need for a new road, so why he has now moved onto wanting a new public transport link, I have no idea.

Edited September 20, 2021 by HeHasRisen