altus Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Interesting poll results for the Tory supporters claiming "if it's legal it's OK" - Almost all Tory voters agree company tax avoidance morally wrong, poll finds: Quote Among Conservative voters in the 2019 general election, 90% agreed that tax avoidance by large companies was “morally wrong even if legal”, the poll found. That was higher than the figure for Labour voters, 85% of whom agreed. Support for the statement that tax avoidance by individuals is “morally wrong even if legal” was 87% among Conservative voters, 80% of Labour voters, and 81% of the public overall. It's particularly surprising that more Tory voters object to it than Labour voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staunton Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 On 18/10/2021 at 17:29, Jeffrey Shaw said: "evade their legal responsibilities"? No, Read that word as "Avoid". Rather than witter about 'tax abuse', focus on tax evasion. If everyone did pay all tax lawfully demanded and properly payable, without evasion, the rest of us would pay far less tax. This applies to just about every tax levied in the UK. All tax abuse is unacceptable, whether it's called evasion or avoidance. However, this is in fact a bogus distinction. Whilst the billionaires and corporates have the bent accountancy firms arranging their tax abuse and working inside HMRC to rig the system, no one is helping the little people to cheat, and the small traders trying to scrape a few extra quid out of their labours in the informal economy are the only ones criminalised. And rightly so, if it were fair, but it clearly isn't. Steal a little and they throw the book at you, steal a lot and you can fly to space. Off shore is now off world, for the big tax cheats. But this sneering distinction is important, because it reveals just how important taxes really are to the neoliberal project - the taxes we ordinary people pay, us 'little people' that is. It's what funds what little there is left of our public services, and I'm sure we none of us need reminding who are increasingly contracted to deliver those services. That's right, those very tax abusing corporates who don't trouble to pay taxes themselves. Indeed, every individual and company making a profit or enjoying an income in the UK should be pay all tax lawfully demanded and properly payable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest makapaka Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 This fell out of news quick didnt it….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Staunton said: All tax abuse is unacceptable, whether it's called evasion or avoidance. However, this is in fact a bogus distinction. Whilst the billionaires and corporates have the bent accountancy firms arranging their tax abuse and working inside HMRC to rig the system, no one is helping the little people to cheat, and the small traders trying to scrape a few extra quid out of their labours in the informal economy are the only ones criminalised. And rightly so, if it were fair, but it clearly isn't. Steal a little and they throw the book at you, steal a lot and you can fly to space. Off shore is now off world, for the big tax cheats. But this sneering distinction is important, because it reveals just how important taxes really are to the neoliberal project - the taxes we ordinary people pay, us 'little people' that is. It's what funds what little there is left of our public services, and I'm sure we none of us need reminding who are increasingly contracted to deliver those services. That's right, those very tax abusing corporates who don't trouble to pay taxes themselves. Indeed, every individual and company making a profit or enjoying an income in the UK should be pay all tax lawfully demanded and properly payable. Well said. 10 minutes ago, makapaka said: This fell out of news quick didnt it….. Yup, until the next time (which you can bet their will be.) Nothing is ever done. These people own the governmments of the world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staunton Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) Why does this matter? What are the consequences of tax abuse? Why are the Panama Papers, like the series of previous exposés, so important? Well it is foundational to the neoliberal project to accumulate wealth in the pockets of the already rich and privileged. These few, still not satisfied with their riches, have been equipped with the means to pervert the system and enrich themselves even further. And that wealth, enjoyed by the one per cent and their hangers on, simultaneously drains resources (that's money) from local communities everywhere. It has a real impact on the lives of ordinary people, people like most of us here in Sheffield. Even if we are managing, our children won't, as the low wage economy is increasingly established, and now that tax abuse is firmly embedded. And once people are shunted into a low-wage existence, they cannot afford to buy a house. Enter the landlords, enjoying unearned wealth (in fact that wealth is earned by others, of course, their tenants, who must labour day and night to pay the rent, to enrich the rentiers) and using that wealth to buy yet more property to add to their portfolio and fill their pockets with ever more unearned income. And the tax abusers recycle some of their stolen money into the funding of compliant political parties, as the Pandora Papers reveal, parties wholly hostile to the needs of ordinary people (as I demonstrated earlier in this thread with reference to the Imperial College study on life expectancy). And the tax abusers are also financing the neoliberal think tanks and lobbyists that champion the Mont Pelerin doctrine of neoliberalism. When businesses abuse the tax system, and when they exploit and underpay their employees, these neoliberal scandals drain localities like Sheffield of the funds required to provide vital services and allow communities to flourish. As I explained in my very first posts here on Sheffield forum more than ten years ago, tax abuse is an integral component of the neoliberal project. That project is destroying the world, and these facts are now clear for anyone to see, if they choose to look. Edited October 23, 2021 by Staunton Typo correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sibon Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 05/10/2021 at 12:51, Tony said: What makes it attractive is that we have a very stable property market and the government isn't in the habit of appropriating other people's property to satisfy political whims. Very few countries are in that position so when people make some cash they put it into tangible and realisable assets which hold and increase their value over time. They might not be sexy investments making huge returns, but they are secure. Just look at the nations in the list; Russia, Azerbaijan, Jordan, Ukraine, Qatar. If you lived in one of those countries where would you put your money to keep it safe, at home or in London real estate? You might want to revisit that list. There are quite a few contributors to this thread who might be reviewing their stances. Dirty money. The root of much evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 50 minutes ago, sibon said: You might want to revisit that list. There are quite a few contributors to this thread who might be reviewing their stances. Dirty money. The root of much evil. I'm glad this Thread has re-emerged. It is so important. It has been rumbling along in the background for too long and affects every one of us. Staunton has it spot on. We are going to see a lot more about dirty money in the current Ukraine crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dromedary Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Anna B said: We are going to see a lot more about dirty money in the current Ukraine crisis. Probably especially as there are several rich Ukrainian billionaires as well who want to protect their own assets. But... https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2022/02/02/inside-the-russian-tax-havens-set-up-by-putin-to-help-sanctioned-billionaires/?sh=50ead440b6ec https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2022/02/24/richest-ukrainians-with-billions-to-lose-close-ranks-as-putin-unleashes-war/?sh=7492e196d728 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box11 Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 I heard a rumour that the real reason why the Conservatives wanted to leave the EU was so they could continue to wash the world’s dirty money that flows through the banks in the city of london on a daily basis and the power’s to be in the EU wanted to put a stop to it !!.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECCOnoob Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Box11 said: I heard a rumour that the real reason why the Conservatives wanted to leave the EU was so they could continue to wash the world’s dirty money that flows through the banks in the city of london on a daily basis and the power’s to be in the EU wanted to put a stop to it !!.... Yeah right... all those hardcore brexiteers and tory voters in poor northern industrial towns have a real affinity with offshore money laundering billionaires. The "rumour" seems a load of bull. There is plenty of dirty money sloshing around the EU just as much as over here. Despite their one upmanship, gesturing and bold statements don't you believe EU leaders would actually tackle it any harder than us - given their leaders are just as easily seduced, sold out, possessive and power hungry as anywhere else. A fact we are seeing right now with the 27 nations solidarity and decisive strength falling apart over Russia, as they all start dithering, dragging their heals and fence sitting to ensure self preservation for their individual nations piggy bank and cash flows. Lets get real here.... Brexit was a little more than a knee jerk election tactic to appease the rising trend of right wingers bleating on about immigration, immigrants and stopping those funny foreigners coming on our land. It certainly worked. The Tories played the election game to win and they smashed it. They read the room and got the reward. Something Labour continually fails to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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