The attitudes of British muslims and non-muslims toward each other

[Pritt Stick]

Hardly. The new leader of the Muslim Council of Britain stated explicitly in an interview a couple of weeks ago that what they were ultimately aiming for was the islamification of British society. Their previous leader, when asked what single thing he would remove/reverse in British culture replied 'women's rights'. This group is viewed as moderate and mainstream and is frequently consultated by the government.

 

 

The same leader, Siddiqui I think, also publicly went on the record as stating that homosexuality was abbhorent. They are consulted cos they are least repellent.

[rubydazzler]

I belong to an informal eating clup called 'The Curry Crew', of which half the members are Muslim / Pakistani, a quarter Christian / Atheist / White, a Sri Lankan and an Indian chap (Hindu) and a couple of Hong Kong Chinese.

 

Are they all males? Mostly females are relegated to the "women's table" even at official events. Most muslim men won't sit down on equal terms with women, not even non Muslim women. As someone else remarked elsewhere on this thread, a lot of influential Muslims would like to see all women taken back to being mere goods and chattels. An attitude that westerners have fought to change for centuries.

 

I'm still extremely concerned about the future if we continue with this constant appeasement of what is a very small minority faith in this country. They seem to have influence out of all proportion to their numbers. I contend that they should be trying to fit in with the majority and not expect the majority to bow to their requirements and demands.

 

edit to amend typo

[Crayfish]

I'm not talking about , but there is a culture of enlightenment among certain portions of the western world - hallmarked by rationalism, internationalism, the absence of unwarranted discrimination and a more individual-driven outlook on life. Probably down to better education.

 

Whatever it is, it seems like the way forward to me, and it's depressing that so many who follow the old ways - religion, tribal nationalism / patriotism - subgrouping, essentially, want to drag us back down. Myself and other people following a more modern and rational way of life have, at present, very little reason to dislike any particular community, and yet certain people or groups have this level of unrequited hatred?

[Plain Talker]

Although your group does sound reather inspirational Joe, I've had muslims make comments about me eating pork in the same vacinity, making comments about how its discussting and wrong, I don't tell them their food is discusting and wrong, I don't tell them that I think how they slaughter their animals is wrong

 

my opinion is split a little.

 

I don't get why you should have had that attitude from those people, jimbob, unless you were "in your face" about eating the pork product (And, no, I would not think that you were doing that to them, yeah?)

 

I am a veggie. I don't say to other people "because I don't eat meat, then neither may you!" I have cooked meat for my ex hubbies, and my current partner...

 

Meat turns my stomach, I can't tolerate eating it, it makes me ill. however, I accept that other folk do eat meat and enjoy it. that's their prerogative. I do not force my non-meat-eating on others.

 

I am fortunate that I have not come across much prejudice, at all, either as a female, or as a disabled person, from the muslim community.

 

PT

[Sweetcheeks]

I'm not talking about , but there is a culture of enlightenment among certain portions of the western world - hallmarked by rationalism, internationalism, the absence of unwarranted discrimination and a more individual-driven outlook on life. Probably down to better education.

 

Whatever it is, it seems like the way forward to me, and it's depressing that so many who follow the old ways - religion, tribal nationalism / patriotism - subgrouping, essentially, want to drag us back down. Myself and other people following a more modern and rational way of life have, at present, very little reason to dislike any particular community, and yet certain people or groups have this level of unrequited hatred?

Absolutely right. Anyone noticed that religion, tribalism, nationalism etc are symptons of backward-looking nations who have totally lost the plot. Its my rant on education rearing its head again, if you are educated, you are free to rationalise freely, if not you follow anyone blindly because you are basically a sheep without the fleece.

[artisan]

I don't get why you should have had that attitude from those people, jimbob, unless you were "in your face" about eating the pork product (And, no, I would not think that you were doing that to them, yeah?)

PT

On the subject of being 'inyour face'. Afew weeksago I was sitting with a mixed group of people (no women as there were muslims present) when the conversation came to religeon.

One of the Pakistani men contributed with the most arrogant statment I have heard for a long time, he said 'You can believe what you like,as long as you believe something, in that case we do not mind'

 

This was from a man who to all intents and purposes was a straight forward guy, but to me it showed how he thought about the people around him.

 

If I had been so patronising to him, I would have been called from hill to burn

[Sweetcheeks]

One of the Pakistani men contributed with the most arrogant statment I have heard for a long time, he said 'You can believe what you like,as long as you believe something, in that case we do not mind'

Oh, b****r, I am doomed then! Mind you, I believe Yorkshire will be relegated to Division 2 of County Cricket if that counts.

[purdyamos]

Afew weeksago I was sitting with a mixed group of people (no women as there were muslims present)

 

You see, this is exactly the sort of run of the mill gender apartheid that has been 'normalised' in the name of multicultural acceptance. (And I'm not critisising you, personally Artisan, for saying that). PT may well feel she has been treated as an equal human being (maybe she's only encountered that blessed subset of muslims that positively condemn sharia law). I've met a lot of muslims that disapprove of me being an independant, 'unowned', equal human being. A few have denied my humanity altogether. Not all, certainly, but it's become something I'm expected to accomodate for the sake of multiculturalism. Why should I? My beliefs stem from the Enlightenment, and I'd like those beliefs respected too.

 

It is the patriarchal 'normalisation' that I object to more than anything. We fought for a long time to be seen as human beings in our own right, and I'm not going to pretend that submisssion is politically correct for anyone. I'll integrate with people only if they see me as an equal human being. That's my baseline 'western' standard.

[rubydazzler]

well said, purdyamos ... I completely agree.

 

I'm not certain as I don't know the gender of most people posting but it does seem that most of the apologists for Islam on SF are male. With the possible exception, of course, of PT who seems to have had positive experiences generally. Even to the extent at some time of assuming the hijab, as she mentioned on another thread.

 

However, although it may seem to some men that they wouldn't be affected if we allowed this religion to have any more influence in this country than it has already assumed for itself, I think they would be sadly mistaken. It won't be just females that find their freedom and rights curtailed in the long run.

 

I can endorse what artisan posted about the comment made to him, I was also told by a "community leader" in Sheffield a couple of years ago, that "his people" would have more common interest with a jew or christian than with an atheist as at least the jew believes in something.

 

I'm quite surprised though to read that we have more of a perceived problem that in the rest of Europe, even though we are the most accommodating nation. I don't know where we're going wrong, or what more we could do to satisfy the people. Perhaps they perceive our readiness to cater to all their demands as weakness and despise us for it ?

[VARB]

What chance do we have with a religion that allows this ? i stopped wondering were the 'attitude' came from along time ago.

 

 

Christian family forced into hiding to protect young mother’s convert identity.

June 23 (Compass Direct) – Attacked by her own family, one Muslim’s decision to convert to Christianity highlights the precarious situation of Muslims in Pakistan who leave their faith.

 

Sehar Muhammad Shafi, 24, has fled her home city of Karachi with her husband and two young daughters after being attacked and raped for changing her faith.

 

[more]

 

 

“Pakistan’s top cleric, Mufti Munib ur Rehman, announced that ‘if a state is truly Islamic,’ it would have to kill the apostate,” Pakistani newspaper Daily Times reported in a March 29 editorial.

 

 

 

http://www.compassdirect.org/en/lead.php