National Hate Crime Week. Should Shouting At Or Close Passing Cyclists Be A Hate

[Findlay]

You may want to read this article as changes to driving laws are inevitable with the definition of careless driving and dangerous driving being discussed which could go to a life sentence if convicted.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9166/

https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default/files/document/2021/08/2106_cyclinguk_five-flaws-failing-laws_final.pdf

 

• ‘careless or inconsiderate’ if it involves a breach of the Highway Code that causes inconvenience, intimidation or danger to another road user

• ‘dangerous’ where such a breach would lead to a driver being failed automatically if they drove in that way during a driving test.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Findlay

[the_bloke]

12 minutes ago, altus said:

I posted the photo to give an example of where the department of transport thinks drivers should be when overtaking cyclists. If they followed the guidance and overtake in the next lane across drivers wouldn't need to understand the subtleties of primary or secondary position.

It also shows where the DoT thinks cyclists should be in the road. So you can understand the confusion a motorist has when they find a cyclist in the middle of the lane.

 

Until the HC is updated with the guidance from Bikeaware etc, the car driver will feel they have every right to express their annoyance at the cyclist for impeding their progress, in the same way they would following a tractor.

[Findlay]

18 hours ago, Longcol said:

40 cyclists seriously injured compared to 114 car drivers - out of all proportion to the numbers of cyclists v car drivers on Sheffield roads.

Yep!

Ninety-four out of a hundred people rarely if ever cycled. At least three-fifths of the public have annually agreed over the last decade that it’s ‘too dangerous’ to cycle on the roads.
‘Too dangerous’ usually means the fear of being injured or worse by drivers going too fast, coming too close or not looking properly. It’s a fear common to many adults, both on their own accounts and whenever they see a child off for a walk that involves crossing roads or for a cycle ride.
Of course, millions of cycling trips pass uneventfully but these anxieties are not empty: mile for mile, cyclists and pedestrians are far more likely to be killed or seriously injured on British roads than car occupants.

Number of killed or seriously injured casualties per billion miles GB 2019

Car driver 31

Pedestrian 539

Cyclist 1,284
 

[altus]

20 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

It also shows where the DoT thinks cyclists should be in the road. So you can understand the confusion a motorist has when they find a cyclist in the middle of the lane.

 

Until the HC is updated with the guidance from Bikeaware etc, the car driver will feel they have every right to express their annoyance at the cyclist for impeding their progress, in the same way they would following a tractor.

Do you think that picture shows enough room to safely overtake the cyclist without moving into the next lane across?

[Jim117]

I can remember going on holiday to Gt Yarmouth as a kid. The landscape was as flat as Holland and single gear push bikes probably dating from WW2 were ten a penny. Made perfect sense. We live in Sheffield and no matter how much our council wants to promote cycling it’s not a viable option unless you happen to live in a valley bottom. I am 56 so probably at the lower end of the age spectrum on here and there is no way I will be jumping on a push bike anytime soon. Aside from the fact that I have to cart a ton of tools around. Please don’t tell me about gearing, cycling might be great for some cities but Sheffield is not one of them unless you are an endorphin junkie.

[Longcol]

1 hour ago, Jim117 said:

I can remember going on holiday to Gt Yarmouth as a kid. The landscape was as flat as Holland and single gear push bikes probably dating from WW2 were ten a penny. Made perfect sense. We live in Sheffield and no matter how much our council wants to promote cycling it’s not a viable option unless you happen to live in a valley bottom. I am 56 so probably at the lower end of the age spectrum on here and there is no way I will be jumping on a push bike anytime soon. Aside from the fact that I have to cart a ton of tools around. Please don’t tell me about gearing, cycling might be great for some cities but Sheffield is not one of them unless you are an endorphin junkie.

I lived near Doncaster up to being 13 - cycling was a doddle without gears. A hill was from the road onto the pavement.

 

We moved to Stocksbridge - a few kids had bikes with derailleur gears, although never saw one of them attempting going up the steep hills of  1 in 7 plus.

 

Where we live in France now, from the village up to where we live is similar in distance and gradient to Sheffield centre to Crosspool. There is a regular group of half a dozen Tour de France wannabees that meet in the village once a week that go up hill and down dale.

 

There are no end of bikes on a week end using the two long fairly flat roads along the ridges near our house - and they're all e-bikes which you can usually pick up for 600 euro out here.

[Becky B]

20 hours ago, Resident said:

My experiences count towards eyewitness testimony, I am giving an account based on my observations and perfectly valid as evidence

Here's a quote from a legal website - "It is a fundamental part of the criminal process. Properly obtained, preserved and presented, eyewitness testimony directly linking the accused to the commission of the offence, is likely the most significant evidence of the prosecution."

As you say, your linked study is a few years old now and there are far more cyclists on the roads now & wasn't even conducted in the UK, It was conducted in the Netherlands, where cycling is hugely popular.

 

Oh the "iT's LeGaL" screeching arguement. Skydiving naked without a parachute is legal.  Just because something is legal doesn't make it safe and my point related to putting themselves in harm's way not law breaking.  Squeezing yourself down inbetween two large 50ft long, weighing upto 44ton  vehicles that are less than the now legal minimum spacing apart is massively unsafe. Try harder. 

 

Annnnd here comes the whataboutery, right on schedule.  Typically, can't attack what was stated so trying to deflect it elsewhere. 

My bold.  You offer anectdotal eyewitness accounts as evidence, and are affronted when that is challenged?

 

So.  The majority of drivers I come across when driving (or cycling) around Sheffield fail:

 

1. To use their indicators

2. To stop at a red light (oooh, I can get through that, why should I have to stop).

3. To adhere to the speed limit

 

Now tell me, is that really the majority, or is it just a sample of what I see?  Do I just notice them because it's stupid, or dangerous?

 

I'm not denying there are cyclists who are stupid and ignorant.  I'm saying it's not exclusive to cyclists.  We are all people.  That is the common factor, and the problem...

 

Look at post #73.  Very well put!

Edited October 20, 2021 by Becky B

[cuttsie]

10 hours ago, Jim117 said:

I can remember going on holiday to Gt Yarmouth as a kid. The landscape was as flat as Holland and single gear push bikes probably dating from WW2 were ten a penny. Made perfect sense. We live in Sheffield and no matter how much our council wants to promote cycling it’s not a viable option unless you happen to live in a valley bottom. I am 56 so probably at the lower end of the age spectrum on here and there is no way I will be jumping on a push bike anytime soon. Aside from the fact that I have to cart a ton of tools around. Please don’t tell me about gearing, cycling might be great for some cities but Sheffield is not one of them unless you are an endorphin junkie.

We went to Yarmouth as 15 year olds , on our bikes . 160 miles and not flat all the way .

[cuttsie]

I came on Effingham Road on Saturday on my bike , I passed all the piles of scrap that litter the road and came to the first Island , looked left and right , now't coming so plowed onto Island to go straight ahead , then car came from entrance below mine and side shunted me into side of road , now't serious just shuck up . 

The driver carried on towards Hyde Park waving . The twaaaate

Edited October 20, 2021 by cuttsie

[Bargepole23]

1 hour ago, cuttsie said:

I came on Effingham Road on Saturday on my bike , I passed all the piles of scrap that litter the road and came to the first Island , looked left and right , now't coming so plowed onto Island to go straight ahead , then car came from entrance below mine and side shunted me into side of road , now't serious just shuck up . 

The driver carried on towards Hyde Park waving . The twaaaate

Not unusual on that roundabout, had a few close shaves myself there riding to and from work. Drivers approach pretty quickly from Bernard Road or Foley Street, a quick glance and they're on the roundabout. As you say, twaaaats.