National Hate Crime Week. Should Shouting At Or Close Passing Cyclists Be A Hate

[Resident]

1 hour ago, Findlay said:

I left it a while for you to have time to figure out if you understand what evidence is and how to interpret that information to reach a rationale. Even though you cover many miles it is not 1 millionth of a percent of the miles travelled across Sheffield. 

Your experience is not evidence as it is limited by time and place and does not take account of other times and places to create a set of data that can be checked and verified.

This study was not in the UK and a few years old but has clear statistical evidence https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/

Point 5 is perfectly legal and taught by Department for Transport National Standards https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/community/how-to/filtering

 

My experiences count towards eyewitness testimony, I am giving an account based on my observations and perfectly valid as evidence

Here's a quote from a legal website - "It is a fundamental part of the criminal process. Properly obtained, preserved and presented, eyewitness testimony directly linking the accused to the commission of the offence, is likely the most significant evidence of the prosecution."

As you say, your linked study is a few years old now and there are far more cyclists on the roads now & wasn't even conducted in the UK, It was conducted in the Netherlands, where cycling is hugely popular.

 

Oh the "iT's LeGaL" screeching arguement. Skydiving naked without a parachute is legal.  Just because something is legal doesn't make it safe and my point related to putting themselves in harm's way not law breaking.  Squeezing yourself down inbetween two large 50ft long, weighing upto 44ton  vehicles that are less than the now legal minimum spacing apart is massively unsafe. Try harder. 

 

4 hours ago, Becky B said:

How many motorists do you see with highway code/driving infractions? Or do you just forget those because you're also a motorist, and that's OK? Is it just that you feed your confirmation bias because you don't like cyclists? 

 

 

Annnnd here comes the whataboutery, right on schedule.  Typically, can't attack what was stated so trying to deflect it elsewhere. 

[the_bloke]

On 14/10/2021 at 09:30, Findlay said:

When I ride my bike to work, like people drive to work, I am often greeted with "Get to the edge of the road!" This is usually always accompanied by an angry self important tone. 

When I was moving tanks and helicopters by road people were a little more respectful.

 

I am not going to ride in the gutter so I can get drivers passing within six inches of me to get past and then stop at the queue of traffic at the next lights forcing me to either brake or change direction.

If it is safe to overtake I will ride in the secondary position. If it is not safe to overtake I will ride in the primary position, which is the middle of the lane,

This is a forward indication for drivers behind that is is not deemed safe by the rider in front to overtake

Riders may move into the primary position on tree bound bends or they can hear a car in front approaching, something which car drivers cannot sense.

 

Close Pass is an initiative being rolled out by police forces across the UK to reduce the number of accidents caused by drivers not giving enough space to people riding bikes. South Yorkshire Police have a number of riders attending the Bikeability scheme which includes the National Standards set by the Department for Transport. They are routinely going into live traffic, putting themselves at risk to identify bad drivers who, on purpose, drive too close to cyclists.

 

I am particularly interested as my children are wanting independence along with their friends, reaching the age where they want to be out cycling on the roads so I’m keen to find out about anything that can make this safer for them.

 

I like the assumption that you are right in your road position and the other road users are wrong. Unlike some other posters, I'm not disagreeing with riding in the primary position but perhaps the abuse you are experiencing is the difference betwixt your interpretation of what you consider safe overtaking and what the driver stuck behind you considers it.

 

You also need to take into account that the Highway Code says nothing about the primary position and most car users have passed a driving test based on the rules outlined in the Highway Code. Guidance created by cycling groups and even promoted to cyclists via schemes such as Bikeability have not yet made it into the Highway Code.

 

Also, like everyone else has pointed out, not a hate crime unless they actually shout abuse associated with a protected characteristic.

 

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/what-is-hate-crime/

 

A hate incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someone’s prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender.

[trastrick]

The war on cars continues.

 

A recent visit to my ex-adopted home town, Toronto illustrated it perfectly with this shot from the Toronto Sun.

 

 

The cyclist is king now!

 

Has his own bike lane now.

 

Back to the future? Or the Brave New World!

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by trastrick

[ads36]

For the last few weeks, after work, i've been driving home along Abbeydale road...

 

it's rubbish, so i started timing it.

 

my average speed is 3mph. (something more than a mile, in something over 20 minutes)

 

there is no cycle lane.

 

What causes congestion ?      Cars.

[altus]

31 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

I like the assumption that you are right in your road position and the other road users are wrong. Unlike some other posters, I'm not disagreeing with riding in the primary position but perhaps the abuse you are experiencing is the difference betwixt your interpretation of what you consider safe overtaking and what the driver stuck behind you considers it.

 

You also need to take into account that the Highway Code says nothing about the primary position and most car users have passed a driving test based on the rules outlined in the Highway Code. Guidance created by cycling groups and even promoted to cyclists via schemes such as Bikeability have not yet made it into the Highway Code.

The highway code has been using this image as an example for rule 163 for ages:

 

Drivers don't need to have done the Bikeability course to know how much room they should give.

[Rockers rule]

13 minutes ago, trastrick said:

The war on cars continues.

 

Shame you can't hear the backing music.

Altogether now,

🎵 Happiness - Happiness , the Greatest gift that I possess 🎵

 

Thank you Doddy - that's enough of that 

[Padders]

1 hour ago, Rockers rule said:

Shame you can't hear the backing music.

Altogether now,

🎵 Happiness - Happiness , the Greatest gift that I possess 🎵

 

Thank you Doddy - that's enough of that 

Where is that like button?

  .

[Findlay]

3 hours ago, the_bloke said:

I like the assumption that you are right in your road position and the other road users are wrong. Unlike some other posters, I'm not disagreeing with riding in the primary position but perhaps the abuse you are experiencing is the difference betwixt your interpretation of what you consider safe overtaking and what the driver stuck behind you considers it.

 

You also need to take into account that the Highway Code says nothing about the primary position and most car users have passed a driving test based on the rules outlined in the Highway Code. Guidance created by cycling groups and even promoted to cyclists via schemes such as Bikeability have not yet made it into the Highway Code.

 

Also, like everyone else has pointed out, not a hate crime unless they actually shout abuse associated with a protected characteristic.

 

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/what-is-hate-crime/

 

A hate incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someone’s prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender.

I have had conversations with local policing teams who carry out close pass patrols and have iterated the same to say that education needs to come before enforcement. 

Most people in their trades do CPD (continuous personal development) but like you say drivers do not. 

I do hope to see TV and radio commercials like the Green Cross Code appearing to highlight these established rules of the road.

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/using-the-road-overtaking.html

[the_bloke]

2 hours ago, altus said:

The highway code has been using this image as an example for rule 163 for ages:

 

Drivers don't need to have done the Bikeability course to know how much room they should give.

That isn't what I said though. The Highway Code has nothing in it about primary and secondary positioning, and without irony you have posted a picture of someone riding in the secondary position.

[altus]

8 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

That isn't what I said though. The Highway Code has nothing in it about primary and secondary positioning, and without irony you have posted a picture of someone riding in the secondary position.

I posted the photo to give an example of where the department of transport thinks drivers should be when overtaking cyclists. If they followed the guidance and overtake in the next lane across drivers wouldn't need to understand the subtleties of primary or secondary position.