Rotherham Cse In The News Again

[HeHasRisen]

Ok, thanks. I still maintain this is only done for more serious crimes though, such as terrorism (that Begum woman had it done to her)

[dave_the_m]

I also happen to think that it is wrong to deport criminals who have had a long-standing residence here, with strong ties.

 

So for example, if a foreign tourist came here and committed a crime, I would expect them to (i) serve a sentence similar to that which a British person would have, and (ii) at the end of their sentence, be deported.

 

Conversely, if someone was brought to the UK when they were 4 years old, were raised here, have married here, bought a house, had kids etc, and have no ties to their country of origin, then if they committed a crime, I would expect them to serve a similar sentence to a British person, but at the end, I would not want them to be deported. That would amount to a second punishment in addition to their sentence. It is also an extra punishment for their partner and children.

 

Now some will argue that we don't want a violent/whatever individual around to commit more crimes, so we should still deport them. But that's really saying that we don't mind them continuing to rape, as long as they don't do in England. At least if they stay in England there's the CRB, sexual offenders resister etc. Back in their "home" country, they're completely anonymous.

 

 

[Man in Crete]

5 hours ago, dave_the_m said:

Legally, the Home Secretary can strip the British Citizenship of any person (including people born here) if they have (or can obtain) citizenship of another country, if it is in the public interest. This includes the 6m or so born-and-bred  brits who happen to have an Irish grandparent.

 

If the HS does this while you happen to be outside the country, you have no right to re-enter the country to attend the court hearing where it is to be determined whether the HS was being reasonable.  During the hearing, the government is allowed to present secret intelligence to the judge, which you and your solicitor are not allowed to see or challenge.

 

People don't seem bothered by this for some reason.

With respect you seem to be in the camp of serve a meagre sentence and then be released. Apologies if incorrect

what this country needs is a government who does what they said on the tin and imho in these cases we need to send a strong message that if folk don’t do as the romans do they probably forfeit the right to remain despite all the money grabbing lefty lawyers stealing money from defending them

of course their families may suffer but so do the victims who seem to be forgotten by the do gooders which vocal minority seem to me to get their way

in short the law needs an amendment and we need to quickly stop  bowing down to the European courts

somehow this has to stop and from first hand experience it is still happening 

[hackey lad]

28 minutes ago, Man in Crete said:

With respect you seem to be in the camp of serve a meagre sentence and then be released. Apologies if incorrect

what this country needs is a government who does what they said on the tin and imho in these cases we need to send a strong message that if folk don’t do as the romans do they probably forfeit the right to remain despite all the money grabbing lefty lawyers stealing money from defending them

of course their families may suffer but so do the victims who seem to be forgotten by the do gooders which vocal minority seem to me to get their way

in short the law needs an amendment and we need to quickly stop  bowing down to the European courts

somehow this has to stop and from first hand experience it is still happening 

Well said  

[dave_the_m]

44 minutes ago, Man in Crete said:

With respect you seem to be in the camp of serve a meagre sentence and then be released. Apologies if incorrect

what this country needs is a government who does what they said on the tin and imho in these cases we need to send a strong message that if folk don’t do as the romans do they probably forfeit the right to remain despite all the money grabbing lefty lawyers stealing money from defending them

of course their families may suffer but so do the victims who seem to be forgotten by the do gooders which vocal minority seem to me to get their way

in short the law needs an amendment and we need to quickly stop  bowing down to the European courts

somehow this has to stop and from first hand experience it is still happening 

I have made two posts on this subject today. The first one pointed out that the home secretary has the power to strip British citizenship from 6 million born-and-bred British citizens who have committed no crime, purely at the whim of the Home Secretary. I consider this a bad thing. Powers given to government shouldn't be so powerful that we have to rely on them pretty-please to only use them on the people we think deserve it.  That statement has no bearing on whether we are being tough on criminals or not, and has nothing to do with the European Court of Human Rights.

 

My second post pointed out that the power to deport can, under some circumstances, cause the penalty for a crime to be much harsher on people who weren't born here. I consider that wrong. I am not opposed to people being deported where appropriate, I just think that all people should be punished equally. Part of that involves British Judges taking account of the British Human Rights Act (passed by the UK Parliament) to ensure that some people aren't arbitrarily given harsher treatment than normal.

 

Unfortunately, the Daily Mail et al love to completely misrepresent this: somehow British courts stopping the government from overly punishing some categories of criminals is turned into European Courts letting evil criminals have soft punishments.

 

So I am in the camp of let them serve the full sentence mandated by the law and sentencing guidelines, then deport them if they would normally live where we're sending them to.

 

So please stop talking about "lefty lawyers" and "European courts".  It's all just factually incorrect propaganda designed to inflame the masses.

[hackey lad]

2 hours ago, dave_the_m said:

I have made two posts on this subject today. The first one pointed out that the home secretary has the power to strip British citizenship from 6 million born-and-bred British citizens who have committed no crime, purely at the whim of the Home Secretary. I consider this a bad thing. Powers given to government shouldn't be so powerful that we have to rely on them pretty-please to only use them on the people we think deserve it.  That statement has no bearing on whether we are being tough on criminals or not, and has nothing to do with the European Court of Human Rights.

 

My second post pointed out that the power to deport can, under some circumstances, cause the penalty for a crime to be much harsher on people who weren't born here. I consider that wrong. I am not opposed to people being deported where appropriate, I just think that all people should be punished equally. Part of that involves British Judges taking account of the British Human Rights Act (passed by the UK Parliament) to ensure that some people aren't arbitrarily given harsher treatment than normal.

 

Unfortunately, the Daily Mail et al love to completely misrepresent this: somehow British courts stopping the government from overly punishing some categories of criminals is turned into European Courts letting evil criminals have soft punishments.

 

So I am in the camp of let them serve the full sentence mandated by the law and sentencing guidelines, then deport them if they would normally live where we're sending them to.

 

So please stop talking about "lefty lawyers" and "European courts".  It's all just factually incorrect propaganda designed to inflame the masses.

Have lawyers stopped people from being deported due to them having family here ? 

[dave_the_m]

17 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

Have lawyers stopped people from being deported due to them having family here ? 

Lawyers have on occasion successfully argued against deportation based on the entirety of the defendant's circumstances, including them having a family.

 

So a simple question for you:  do you believe that someone who has lived in the UK since they were 4 years old, is now married with kids, and who is convicted of crime, and who having served a sentence of equal length to that someone born here would have served, should in addition be deported to a country which they haven't been to since they were 4 years old, where they can't speak the local language, where they are separated from their wife and kids, where they can't get a job or any sort of social security, have no friends, relatives or contacts there, and basically are homeless?

[Leo Tomlinson]

13 minutes ago, dave_the_m said:

Lawyers have on occasion successfully argued against deportation based on the entirety of the defendant's circumstances, including them having a family.

 

So a simple question for you:  do you believe that someone who has lived in the UK since they were 4 years old, is now married with kids, and who is convicted of crime, and who having served a sentence of equal length to that someone born here would have served, should in addition be deported to a country which they haven't been to since they were 4 years old, where they can't speak the local language, where they are separated from their wife and kids, where they can't get a job or any sort of social security, have no friends, relatives or contacts there, and basically are homeless?

And the little lasses they raped ,what about them .

[hackey lad]

22 minutes ago, dave_the_m said:

Lawyers have on occasion successfully argued against deportation based on the entirety of the defendant's circumstances, including them having a family.

 

So a simple question for you:  do you believe that someone who has lived in the UK since they were 4 years old, is now married with kids, and who is convicted of crime, and who having served a sentence of equal length to that someone born here would have served, should in addition be deported to a country which they haven't been to since they were 4 years old, where they can't speak the local language, where they are separated from their wife and kids, where they can't get a job or any sort of social security, have no friends, relatives or contacts there, and basically are homeless?

Yes  

9 minutes ago, Leo Tomlinson said:

And the little lasses they raped ,what about them .

Collateral damage  ( They Don't Count ) 

[top4718]

There seems to be more sympathy for the perpetrators than the victims on here. Put yourself in the position these girls were/are in, usually coming from broken family homes where love was way down the agenda, they are led on by these vile men with offers to hang out and are given food, drink and later drugs giving them a release from their mundane lives, then the threats, the coercion and the abuse starts, the only people these girls then have to turn to are the authorities, disgracefully they were largely ignored by every single one, a stain on our society that not only is the extent of it not even uncovered yet it's still happening.