hackey lad Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 22 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said: I don't tell anybody what to think. I tell people what I think. You do waht you like! Ok then , what was Operation Trident about ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, hackey lad said: Ok then , what was Operation Trident about ? Is this a quiz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said: Is this a quiz? Adios amigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockers rule Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 10 hours ago, harvey19 said: After the interesting debate on this thread my final thoughts are that, 1...The bombing was a criminal act carried out by an individual whose motives we do not know. 2...We should not judge all people who come to our country by the actions of one individual. 3...The asylum/refugee system in this country needs sorting out and maybe existing treaties need to be amended. 4...Statements about behaviours need to be substantiated by evidence and not media sensationalism. I can only question No2... isn't it fair, to stop ignoring the fact these 'Individuals' (often helped with at least one other if not more) are in fact part of a 'collective'? All with the same mentality to interfere with our way of life by terrorist acts. Keep safe out there Question; how different would this post have been, if, as suggest at first it may have been an IRA attack ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rockers rule said: I can only question No2... isn't it fair, to stop ignoring the fact these 'Individuals' (often helped with at least one other if not more) are in fact part of a 'collective'? All with the same mentality to interfere with our way of life by terrorist acts. Keep safe out there Question; how different would this post have been, if, as suggest at first it may have been an IRA attack ? Number 3 should cover your concern as it would introduce proper vetting procedures. Edited November 18, 2021 by harvey19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHasRisen Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Rockers rule said: I can only question No2... isn't it fair, to stop ignoring the fact these 'Individuals' (often helped with at least one other if not more) are in fact part of a 'collective'? All with the same mentality to interfere with our way of life by terrorist acts. Keep safe out there Question; how different would this post have been, if, as suggest at first it may have been an IRA attack ? Only one person had a theory it was an IRA attack, was baffling at the time and obviously turned out to be woefully incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbuncle Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Rockers rule said: 12 hours ago, harvey19 said: After the interesting debate on this thread my final thoughts are that, 1...The bombing was a criminal act carried out by an individual whose motives we do not know. 2...We should not judge all people who come to our country by the actions of one individual. 3...The asylum/refugee system in this country needs sorting out and maybe existing treaties need to be amended. 4...Statements about behaviours need to be substantiated by evidence and not media sensationalism. I can only question No2... isn't it fair, to stop ignoring the fact these 'Individuals' (often helped with at least one other if not more) are in fact part of a 'collective'? All with the same mentality to interfere with our way of life by terrorist acts. What you seem to be proposing, @Rockers rule is called stereotyping: don't judge 'these people' as individual human beings for they are merely representatives of 'them', the other, the bogeymen who lurk in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 16 hours ago, tinfoilhat said: The welfare state is at risk from Conservative governments. End of. Asylum seekers granted leave to stay can contribute - some work for the NHS. You raise a valid point on his repeated refusal of asylum. He's either granted or not - he's either in or not, it doesn't need that many appeals. I'd go as far as to suggest him being in limbo for 7 years didn't do anyone any good and might have been a motivation for the attack. Far from it...the welfare state is at risk precisely because there is no limit on the demand side. It is the same issue as boundless consumerism on a finite planet...the demand constantly increases...the resources remain finite. Take the NHS for example...anyone can avail themselves of it, with no proof of contribution history at point of use (no ID cards). Just turn up at A&E and you will be treated. By the way most of my immediate family work in the NHS either at Sheffield Children's or Leeds Teaching and they would tell you the same. Some economist once said that you can have a welfare state or open borders...but not both...and they were spot on. On the subject of repeated refusal of asylum...in whose interest were the applications raised? No doubt some lawyer with a vested interest or an "asylum professional" kept the process going and strung him along. I can understand why he may have lost hope and took a wrong turn. I have no doubt it affected his MH, but many, many people suffer from MH issues at some point in their lives...very few become suicide bombers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 10 minutes ago, crazyhorse said: Far from it...the welfare state is at risk precisely because there is no limit on the demand side. It is the same issue as boundless consumerism on a finite planet...the demand constantly increases...the resources remain finite. Take the NHS for example...anyone can avail themselves of it, with no proof of contribution history at point of use (no ID cards). Just turn up at A&E and you will be treated. By the way most of my immediate family work in the NHS either at Sheffield Children's or Leeds Teaching and they would tell you the same. Some economist once said that you can have a welfare state or open borders...but not both...and they were spot on. On the subject of repeated refusal of asylum...in whose interest were the applications raised? No doubt some lawyer with a vested interest or an "asylum professional" kept the process going and strung him along. I can understand why he may have lost hope and took a wrong turn. I have no doubt it affected his MH, but many, many people suffer from MH issues at some point in their lives...very few become suicide bombers. I bet most of your immediate family can tell tales of under investment and massive staff shortages. I'm not completely averse to the idea of ID cards - other countries have them - but equally I'm happy for somebody to turn up and be treated, we don't want to be like America. On another note, just heard on the wireless that black people are still 7 times more likely to stopped and searched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Any danger of this thread getting back on topic any time soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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