Liverpool Terrorist Attack

[harvey19]

14 minutes ago, Delbow said:

I think it's up to Black people to say how they feel about stop and search, not for white people to tell them how they should feel about it, and I think you'll struggle to find (m)any who think the current use of it is proportionate or justified. When people who aren't involved in any significant criminality (I say this because all of us have done something illegal) say they are scared of the police then something is very wrong.

I agree with most of what you say but if you and your children were living in an area where there was a lot of violence with knives or guns and problems caused by illegal drugs wouldn't you want the police to be proactive in trying to stop it rather than turning up after someone had been killed.

I link this to the Guardian article which quotes stop and search is only done when there is relevant intelligence to implement it.

This applies to all areas and all people.

 

I think it is time for me to leave this thread as I have strayed off the thread topic.

Thank you all for an interesting debate.

Edited November 18, 2021 by harvey19

[Carbuncle]

8 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

I agree with most of what you say but if you and your children were living in an area where there was a lot of violence with knives or guns and problems caused by illegal drugs wouldn't you want the police to be proactive in trying to stop it rather than turning up after someone had been killed.

One thing worth noting is that black people are disproportionately the victims of crime, particularly young black men. Thus when black community leaders speak out against stop and search they are taking a holistic view and appreciate both benefits (potentially increased stopping of crime) and costs (humiliation and indignity of those targeted). In a country that talks about 'policing by consent', black discomfort with stop and search ought to have lead to its alteration years ago.

[altus]

1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

I agree with most of what you say but if you and your children were living in an area where there was a lot of violence with knives or guns and problems caused by illegal drugs wouldn't you want the police to be proactive in trying to stop it rather than turning up after someone had been killed.

I link this to the Guardian article which quotes stop and search is only done when there is relevant intelligence to implement it.

This applies to all areas and all people.

 

I think it is time for me to leave this thread as I have strayed off the thread topic.

Thank you all for an interesting debate.

Whatever the police claim about when they do it, reality doesn't always match that claim - Black boy in stop and search ‘30 times’ accuses Met police of racist profiling:

Quote

A 14-year-old black schoolboy has accused the Metropolitan police of racist targeting after claiming he has been stopped by police about 30 times in the last two years. He has not been charged with or convicted of any offence.

It sounds like the police are trying to goad him into reacting in a way they can use to charge him with something.

 

[hackey lad]

12 minutes ago, altus said:

Whatever the police claim about when they do it, reality doesn't always match that claim - Black boy in stop and search ‘30 times’ accuses Met police of racist profiling:

It sounds like the police are trying to goad him into reacting in a way they can use to charge him with something.

 

Last sentence , why would they do that?

[altus]

57 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

Last sentence , why would they do that?

Not all police officers are saints. Power trip, racism, wanting to boost their arrest rate, there are many reasons why such a police officer might want to find an excuse to arrest someone.

 

I've witnessed an attempt to do so. One Xmas eve at a Liverpool station, weather problems had disrupted the power to the Merseyrail network (think Merseyside version of the Tube) and the trains weren't running. People were frustrated at the delay and one person, who had been drinking but not excessively, expressed his frustration in a non threatening way. Instead of trying to calm him down as you'd expect them to, two police officers tried to goad him into acting more strongly. The guy was sober enough to realise what was happening and didn't rise to it.

[butlers]

 

[top4718]

19 hours ago, butlers said:

Lee Rigbys killers were of  course born in the UK

I get a bit sick of seeing this as an excuse for abhorrent crimes, if the killers of Lee Rigby had grown up in say Lambeth they wouldn't have had anything like what you would call a UK upbringing.

[Baron99]

Mental illness issues or not, the individual clearly has intentions along the lines of causing the maximum amount of deaths, injuries & destruction as he could. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-59346012