Compulsory Vaccination?

[Chekhov]

11 hours ago, top4718 said:

Can anyone explain the current OTT response from the Government with regards to a variant that has yet to make a single person seriously ill (Omicron), re-introduced useless comfort blankets, mandatory tests for people coming into the UK and a decision about "cancelling" Christmas on the 18th December, why are they getting away with this and why isn't it being questioned. months and 

I have just heard that on the radio. 

The answer is that the people have been scared ****less over the last 18 months and will agree with anything, however disproportionate and ineffective,  if they think it will lower their chances of getting Covid.

The UNBELIEVABLE thing is that if vaccinated (or under 40 and healthy), they are not actually in that much danger from Covid. But they do not want to get confused by the facts......

[whiteowl]

20 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Sadly "top" I continue to be stunned by the degree which people are willing, sheeplike, to follow all these ludicrous restriction and edicts, so, whilst I agree there will be less adherence than last year, I suspect the majority will subserviently comply.

Thanks and much respect due, to the freedom fighters who say NO, I will not comply with these ineffective disproportionate and draconian edicts.

As a 51 year old man, a bit over-weight, who smokes, I was grateful to have had the vaccine when I caught Covid 3 weeks ago. Very mild symptoms - would that have been the case without the vaccine? Who knows, I'm just happy not to have been in the position to find out. As for Omicron, I think prudence is in order while we check the effects of it. If it turns out to be less deadly than the previous varients, then we can revert the restrictions. 

 

As for the unmasked being freedom fighters, it reminds me of an old saying:

"One mans freedom fighter is another mans toddler having a tantrum"

 

[trastrick]

11 hours ago, top4718 said:

Can anyone explain the current OTT response from the Government with regards to a variant that has yet to make a single person seriously ill (Omicron), re-introduced useless comfort blankets, mandatory tests for people coming into the UK and a decision about "cancelling" Christmas on the 18th December, why are they getting away with this and why isn't it being questioned.

 

Whats absolutely bizarre is that people on this very thread are quite happy to hand total control of their lives to these lunatics.

 

Incidentally if they do try to cancel Xmas they'll have the biggest rebuke to restrictions that have been seen so far.

Actually they will comply because they don't want to be seen as described in the media, anti-science zealots, who are willing to put themselves, their families, their neighbors, their fellow countrymen at great risk, or god forbid, Trump supporters, willing to kill others, for their own selfish ends.

 

You can't really blame the sheep in this new woke, cancel culture!

 

It's actually public villification they fear. 

Like in communist countries, labeled "enemies of the people"

 

In other words intimidation, with possible severe consequences, loss of job, career, reputation, business, and peer approval.

 

Fear is a great marshalling tool for all politicians and would be totalitarians.

 

Always was!

 

Climate Change next up!

Edited December 5, 2021 by trastrick

[nikki-red]

45 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Sadly "top" I continue to be stunned by the degree which people are willing, sheeplike, to follow all these ludicrous restriction and edicts, so, whilst I agree there will be less adherence than last year, I suspect the majority will subserviently comply.

Thanks and much respect due, to the freedom fighters who say NO, I will not comply with these ineffective disproportionate and draconian edicts.

And yet, ironically, it’s these “freedom fighters” that could in theory end up contributing to us all losing our freedoms completely again, ie everywhere closing. 
 

Edited December 5, 2021 by nikki-red

[melthebell]

31 minutes ago, nikki-red said:

And yet, ironically, it’s these “freedom fighters” that could in theory end up contributing to us all losing our freedoms completely again, ie everywhere closing. 
 

Indeed, that bit of irony seems to fly over their small, narrow minded heads

[Chekhov]

1 hour ago, whiteowl said:

As for the unmasked being freedom fighters, it reminds me of an old saying:

"One mans freedom fighter is another mans toddler having a tantrum"

No you've got that wrong, as I'm sure you know, it's actually "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".

You are scared of Covid (no idea why if you're vaccinated as you are far more likely or die of heart disease or a stroke or a dozen other things) so you want to wear a mask and force others to also do so even though the evidence for their effectiveness is poor anyway *. But I am not scared of Covid and I value my freedoms. I say "freedoms", we are talking a like they are something out of the ordinary, not something we took for granted for a thousand years.

 

* Do masks and vaccine passports prevent Covid illness and deaths ? (3 Dec 21)

 

England : No mask mandate since July, no vaccine passport

Scotland : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 1st Oct (enforced since 18th Oct)

Wales : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 11th Oct

 

Patients in hospital with a positive Covid test per million popn (on 3rd Dec 21))

England : 103.7

Scotland : 118.5

Wales : 141.3

 

Deaths from any cause within 28 days of a positive Covid test

Last date for which full data is available is 26 Nov for Eng and Scot and 25 Nov for Wales.

Number of deaths 7 day average / per million popn =

England = 95.4 / 1.69 

Scotland = 10.6 / 1.93

Wales = 5.7 / 1.78

 

Populations : Eng = 56.4m, Scotland = 5.5m, Wales = 3.2m

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=England

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=Scotland

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=Wales

 

"don't confuse me with the facts"

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Chekhov

[Chekhov]

53 minutes ago, nikki-red said:

And yet, ironically, it’s these “freedom fighters” that could in theory end up contributing to us all losing our freedoms completely again, ie everywhere closing. 
 

That is counter intuitive. You are saying doing everything these people say will mean they will be less likely to ask us to do so again = 180 degrees wrong.

Wearing masks and all the other non pharmaceutical interventions suppressing society will not bring an end to this nightmare one second sooner.

But, of course, that depends on ones definition of this nightmare ending. To some people that means when they are no danger at all from Covid (not that that will ever happen). To me it will not be over till we are 100% back to normal. Whilst ever we are changing society because of Covid, Covid is winning and we are losing. It amazes me people cannot see that, it;s because there is too much irrational fear out there.

[Magilla]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

Actually they will comply because they don't want to be seen as described in the media, anti-science zealots, who are willing to put themselves, their families, their neighbors, their fellow countrymen at great risk

LOL... nope

 

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or god forbid, Trump supporters" willing to kill others, for their own selfish ends.

Jesus you just can't help yourself!

 

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You can't really blame the sheep in this new woke, cancel culture!

Trump targets Nike as Kaepernick ads spark boycott calls:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nike-kaepernick-idUSKCN1LL1WS

 

A list of people and things Donald Trump tried to get cancelled before he railed against 'cancel culture':

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/07/politics/fact-check-trump-cancel-culture-boycotts-firings/index.html

 

With Liz Cheney’s ouster, the GOP is officially the cancel culture party:

https://www.fastcompany.com/90635774/with-liz-cheneys-ouster-the-gop-is-officially-the-cancel-culture-party

 

Conservatives claim to hate "cancel culture" — but it's the heart of the right-wing agenda

https://www.salon.com/2021/05/01/conservatives-claim-to-hate-cancel-culture--but-its-the-heart-of-the-right-wing-agenda/

 

"Woke" you say...

 

...or just another example of your rank hypocrisy?

 

 

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It's actually public villification they fear.

...which, somewhat ironically, is a Trump modus operandi and legacy of his presidency!

 

You know what "RINO" means, and why it's used... right?

 

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Like in communist countries, labeled "enemies of the people"

Trump's War on the Press, the New McCarthyism, and the Threat to American Democracy:

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/enemy-people-trumps-war-press-new-mccarthyism-and-threat-american-democracy

'Shortly after assuming office in January 2017, President Donald Trump accused the press of being an “enemy of the American people.”'

 

 

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In other words intimidation, with possible severe consequences, loss of job, career, reputation, and peer approval.

... or life

 

Death threats and intimidation of public officials signal Trump’s autocratic legacy:

https://theconversation.com/death-threats-and-intimidation-of-public-officials-signal-trumps-autocratic-legacy-153281

 

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Fear is a great marshalling tool for all politicians and would be totalitarians.

All of your examples, every single one, is employed by Trump and the Republican party almost on a daily basis!

 

"Would be totalitarians" you say?

 

You should get yourself checked fella, it sounds a lot like you might be one of those "sheep" you mentioned earlier!

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Magilla

[Chekhov]

11 hours ago, sibon said:

I've been in Sainsbury, Tesco and Aldi tonight.

Almost everyone masked. The unmasked were either young males in their twenties, or fifty something  blokes with a chip on each shoulder and often a bit of a sweatiness issue.

I have been in a fair number of shops and never wear a mask, I have never been challenged.

If any member of the public sought to argue with me, not that that has ever happened (and I have not worn a mask since about April) I would relish debating them into the ground. 
I would say if you are frightened of Covid "I would recommend you get vaccinated", if they say they have been vaccinated I'd say "I would recommend you study risk probability, and if that doesn't put your mind at rest I'd recommend psychological help".

[hackey lad]

15 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

That is counter intuitive. You are saying doing everything these people say will mean they will be less likely to ask us to do so again = 180 degrees wrong.

Wearing masks and all the other non pharmaceutical interventions suppressing society will not bring an end to this nightmare one second sooner.

But, of course, that depends on ones definition of this nightmare ending. To some people that means when they are no danger at all from Covid (not that that will ever happen). To me it will not be over till we are 100% back to normal. Whilst ever we are changing society because of Covid, Covid is winning and we are losing. It amazes me people cannot see that, it;s because there is too much irrational fear out there.

You are right about the “irrational fear “