Compulsory Vaccination?

[fools]

sunglasses

 

the more data points in sight, the easier it is.

Edited December 6, 2021 by fools

[RJRB]

2 hours ago, top4718 said:

An effective vaccine would have ended the thing months ago, remember the "15m vaccines to freedom" claim.

What I do remember is our health service and numerous others being swamped by hospitalisation and complete uncertainty as to how dangerous it appeared to be particularly to the elderly(put a figure on that) those with underlying health conditions ( of which there are many) and seemingly some ethnic groups.

In the face of uncertainty the government provided no consistent message and lost much confidence with its U turns and knee jerk reactions.

The one thing that most hoped for was an effective vaccine and thanks to scientists very around the world this was achieved in an amazingly short space of.

Why effective?

Because it vastly reduced mortality rates and serious illness.

This coupled with successful treatments that are still being developed has provided much relief and gratitude from most people.

However there are those who dismiss the great advances made and claim to have a greater understanding than the medical world .That I can stand but the constant sniping at those who have had their jabs and choose to socially distance and wear a mask when it suits them is stupid and inconsiderate.

Worse than that you try to scare people by introducing spurious references to complications arising from the vaccines which are totally fabricated or insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[onewheeldave]

2 hours ago, fools said:

Adjacent postcodes will often have significantly different infection/death rates. Same NHS trust, same laws. Wales/Scotland are different countries, devolved administrations with different laws, different bureaucracies, different weather.

 

You can't just compare some figures, and come to a conclusion that masks have or have not made a difference. It could be down to fried mars bars or their musical tastes. Their figures could be worse without masks, you have no data to compare.

 

Comparing far away countries and coming to a conclusion about mask efficacy is just ludicrous.

 

In the absence of data either way, you have to use logic and precaution --- People spit when they talk/cough/sneeze, two surgical masks will help to contain and limit your exposure to that spittle. It's that simple.

 

 

You've missed Chekhovs actual point, which is that it cuts  both ways i.e. those who consider comparing neighbouring regions to be not valid, should also cease citing how lands neighbouring Sweden have had lower death rates as being critical of Swedens relative lack of lockdowns and other measures.

[fools]

23 hours ago, fools said:

 

 

You are doing what the government, media and your opponents do, finding some stats that seemingly match your narrative, and ignoring all the buts, all the footnotes.

 

 

Nope, this preceded his post - I'd already said it cuts both ways.

 

Throwing misleading stats around  like this to support fallacious arguments is ridiculous, and never ending. Doesn't matter which side you're on.

 

I've already commented on the futility of country to country comparisons, and the misuse  of, and reliance on stats, in the covid thread.

 

I can't remember a time when so much crap has been circulated by the establishment without any rational discourse or scientific rigour pulling it apart. The lies being thrown about as truth by the establishment are shocking, and there is always a false statistic to back it up.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by fools

[Carbuncle]

3 hours ago, Chekhov said:

It should all have ended in about last April when they'd vaccinated 15,000,000 with at least two doses. And I really do mean All of it, no masks, no travel restrictions, nothing at all, back to the old normal.

You keep making the same point: covid is not a particular problem for the vaccinated and the healthy under-40s therefore once all the over-40s and vulnerable have had the opportunity to have the vaccine we could have ignored covid and gone back to normal and suffered only modest health consequences from covid. I understand what you are saying. The problem is it's not true and it does not get any more true for your repetition of it.

 

If we had removed all restrictions in April, cases would have grown rapidly and we would either have toughed it out with hospitals overwhelmed (to the point of not even being able to give oxygen to all those who could benefit from it) or reimposed a hard lockdown. Replace April with mid-June and I do not know what happens but for April, I think it's clear using simple arguments with data that is publicly available.

 

You just have to contemplate the possibility that you have missed something and actually look at the data for yourself. But I'm guessing you are just going to post that graph from AgeUK for the fifth time and repeat yourself.

 

[Chekhov]

Good news, though you wouldn't believe it from all the scaremongering in the media.

The death rate with/from Covid (7 day moving average) has been consistently falling for one month, down from 171 a day (on the 5th Nov) down to 118 yesterday :

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

 

That death rate does, of course, include people who died of something other than Covid but just happened to have Covid when they died, possibly 25% :

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/13/quarter-covid-deaths-not-caused-virus/

[Longcol]

2 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

You've missed Chekhovs actual point, which is that it cuts  both ways i.e. those who consider comparing neighbouring regions to be not valid, should also cease citing how lands neighbouring Sweden have had lower death rates as being critical of Swedens relative lack of lockdowns and other measures.

But what if you consider neighbouring regions / towns / countries to be valid, like I do - last winter you only had to watch the daily map of the spread of the Alpha / Kent variant to see that it was spreading to London and would cause carnage. 

 

No similar spread from neighbouring countries to Sweden which has managed a death rate many times it's neighbours (mainly in Stockholm, it's main urban area - rural Sweden largely unaffected).

[top4718]

4 hours ago, RJRB said:

What I do remember is our health service and numerous others being swamped by hospitalisation and complete uncertainty as to how dangerous it appeared to be particularly to the elderly(put a figure on that) those with underlying health conditions ( of which there are many) and seemingly some ethnic groups.

In the face of uncertainty the government provided no consistent message and lost much confidence with its U turns and knee jerk reactions.

The one thing that most hoped for was an effective vaccine and thanks to scientists very around the world this was achieved in an amazingly short space of.

Why effective?

Because it vastly reduced mortality rates and serious illness.

This coupled with successful treatments that are still being developed has provided much relief and gratitude from most people.

However there are those who dismiss the great advances made and claim to have a greater understanding than the medical world .That I can stand but the constant sniping at those who have had their jabs and choose to socially distance and wear a mask when it suits them is stupid and inconsiderate.

Worse than that you try to scare people by introducing spurious references to complications arising from the vaccines which are totally fabricated or insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

 

Disgraceful, I actually posted a link to the GoFundMe page of a local woman who had to have major brain surgery and will never walk again as a direct consequence of the AZ vaccine, I'm sure her two teenage sons and husband wouldn't describe this as spurious, the mask slips form the "unselfish" yet again, I'm disgusted.

[The_DADDY]

4 minutes ago, top4718 said:

Disgraceful, I actually posted a link to the GoFundMe page of a local woman who had to have major brain surgery and will never walk again as a direct consequence of the AZ vaccine, I'm sure her two teenage sons and husband wouldn't describe this as spurious, the mask slips form the "unselfish" yet again, I'm disgusted.

I know a few people who would be disgusting by that comment too. And to think, a lot of these pro jabbers pretend to be the caring sort. Doesn't take long for the mask to slip eh? 

Edited December 6, 2021 by The_DADDY

[top4718]

1 minute ago, The_DADDY said:

I know a few people who would be disgusting by that comment too. And to think, a lot of these pro jabbers pretend to be the caring sort. Doesn't take long for the mask to slip eh? 

Exactly, I read today that domestic abuse of children had increased 20% during lockdowns (it was highlighted due to the appalling "Arthur" case, another statistic that the Covid cult will ignore as they're more bothered about a heavy cold.