Compulsory Vaccination?

[Carbuncle]

1 minute ago, onewheeldave said:

It isn't an insult to point out that you call people names [in this case 'gullible conspirasheeple']

And presumably you would agree that calling people insulting names is fairly contrary to possession of a confident and well developed intellect?

And me pointing out that fact is not an insult.

I disagree with every line of this.

 

Ooh look, a covid press briefing is coming. I wonder whether Plan B is about to be announced?

[hackey lad]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

But what has changed is people's attitude to risk and death. It has been changing slowly for years, since the mid 1800s, but even before Covid it was accelerating, but Covid has turbocharged that. It is now illegal to have any rolling stock on British Railways if it has opening windows that someone could potentially put their head out of, that's how bad it is.  Remember even now, if one is vaccinated, or healthy and under 40, one is already very unlikely to die of Covid, yet we still have all these restrictions and even, apparently, a majority in favour of vaccine passports.

I desperately hope you are right, but I worry, for all those NHS employees (incl my wife), masks will be mandatory in hospitals forever.

So that other people who read your answer get the context. 

Other people aren’t as stupid as you think. 

[Carbuncle]

Bother, after a bare few hours of advocating a bit of suppression I am back to being in the mainstream. Where's the fun in that?

[Chekhov]

2 hours ago, hackey lad said:

Other people  aren’t as stupid as you think. 

[I assume you mean people who are frightened of Covid despite being vaccinated, and/or they are in favour of more suppression of Covid]

I remain to be convinced of that.

3 hours ago, PRESLEY said:

>>Masking doesn't work, its nonsense.<<

 

Yes it does, when sneezing or coughing the method of using an hanky or using your hand for cover is good manners and eleviates the spread of germs,  same reason for wearing a mask. 

Why don't you look at the facts ?

 

Do masks and vaccine passports prevent Covid illness and deaths ? (3 Dec 21)

 

England : No mask mandate since July, no vaccine passport

Scotland : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 1st Oct (enforced since 18th Oct)

Wales : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 11th Oct

 

Patients in hospital with a positive Covid test per million popn (on 3rd Dec 21)

England : 103.7 (the best)

Scotland : 118.5

Wales : 141.3

 

Deaths from any cause within 28 days of a positive Covid test
Last date for which full data is available is 26 Nov for Eng and Scot and 25 Nov for Wales.
Number of deaths 7 day average / per million popn =
England = 95.4 / 1.69 (the best)
Scotland = 10.6 / 1.93
Wales = 5.7 / 1.78

 

Populations : Eng = 56.4m, Scotland = 5.5m, Wales = 3.2m

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=England

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=Scotland

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=Wales

[Carbuncle]

19 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Do masks and vaccine passports prevent Covid illness and deaths ? (3 Dec 21)

...

Yeah, this is evidence against masks and vaccine passports but its incredibly weak, just incredibly weak. This kind of thing is just not the way to get information on the question of the effectiveness of masks and vaccine passports.

 

And of course you have ignored all the other data points in the obvious data set, ie values for other countries which do and do not have some combination of masks and vaccine passports.

 

How many times have you posted this nonsensical analysis? 3 times? Let's leave it at that, it's just weak.

 

 

 

 

[Chekhov]

Boris Johnson  : 8 Dec 21

 

"We don't know anything about Omicron (except it will get last years Christmas party off the front pages tomorrow)."

 

The man is disgusting, how is he PM of this country ?

Edited December 8, 2021 by Chekhov

[hackey lad]

48 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

I remain to be convinced of that.

Why don't you look at the facts ?

 

Do masks and vaccine passports prevent Covid illness and deaths ? (3 Dec 21)

 

England : No mask mandate since July, no vaccine passport

Scotland : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 1st Oct (enforced since 18th Oct)

Wales : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 11th Oct

 

Patients in hospital with a positive Covid test per million popn (on 3rd Dec 21)

England : 103.7 (the best)

Scotland : 118.5

Wales : 141.3

 

Deaths from any cause within 28 days of a positive Covid test
Last date for which full data is available is 26 Nov for Eng and Scot and 25 Nov for Wales.
Number of deaths 7 day average / per million popn =
England = 95.4 / 1.69 (the best)
Scotland = 10.6 / 1.93
Wales = 5.7 / 1.78

 

Populations : Eng = 56.4m, Scotland = 5.5m, Wales = 3.2m

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=England

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=Scotland

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=Wales

Please stop amending my posts 

[Dromedary]

24 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

And of course you have ignored all the other data points in the obvious data set, ie values for other countries which do and do not have some combination of masks and vaccine passports.

 

And you also seem to ignore the fact that using data from other countries also falls into the category of incredibly weak evidence. Especially so as its almost impossible to compare other countries to ours unless they compile their data in the same way under the same conditions.  At least it's compiled the same way in England, Scotland and Wales so that is the best way to compare the situation as to what is happening here. Correlation is not causation we keep hearing but in this situation and given the basic facts it's about the best that you can get.

 

Given also that many scientists have also questioned past studies and said in many cases the mask studies were flawed in they way they were carried out.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Dromedary

[Chekhov]

18 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

Yeah, this is evidence against masks and vaccine passports but its incredibly weak, just incredibly weak. This kind of thing is just not the way to get information on the question of the effectiveness of masks and vaccine passports.

 

And of course you have ignored all the other data points in the obvious data set, ie values for other countries which do and do not have some combination of masks and vaccine passports.

 

How many times have you posted this nonsensical analysis? 3 times? Let's leave it at that, it's just weak.

No it's facts. You may not like what it's saying or agree with the conclusions I have drawn, but they are facts none the less. It is most assuredly not "misinformation".

It certainly proves that neither vaccine passports or masks  are a "game changer". The stats prove that masks and vaccine passports can only make a difference on the margin, and that is at best.

 

Misinformation : false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive.

 

So you accusing me of misinformation (in this context for certain) is factually incorrect.

1 minute ago, hackey lad said:

Please stop amending my posts 

I am not amending your posts, certainly not to make it look like you are saying something you are not. I am simply putting the question you are answering in your post. If you think I am doing anything underhand complain to the mods or stop repeating this unfounded assertion. What you are doing is kicking up a smoke screen to divert attention from your unsupportable arguments.

5 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

And you also seem to ignore the fact that using data from other countries also falls into the category of incredibly weak evidence. Especially so as its almost impossible to compare other countries to ours unless they compile their data in the same way under the same conditions.  At least it's compiled the same way in England, Scotland and Wales so that is the best way to compare the situation as to what is happening here. Correlation is not causation we keep hearing but in this situation and given the basic facts it's about the best that you can get.

Given also that many scientists have also questioned past studies and said in many cases the studies were flawed in they way they were carried out.

This is totally correct.

[Carbuncle]

3 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

And you also seem to ignore the fact that using data from other countries also falls into the category of incredibly weak evidence. Especially so as its almost impossible to compare other countries to ours unless they compile their data in the same way under the same conditions.  At least it's compiled the same way in England, Scotland and Wales so that is the best way to compare the situation as to what is happening here. Correlation is not causation we keep hearing but in this situation and given the basic facts it's about the best that you can get.

 

Given also that many scientists have also questioned past studies and said in many cases the mask studies were flawed in they way they were carried out.

I think there has been a misunderstanding. I think an analysis of the kind proposed will always be weak ... even with the inclusion of the full data set. However if one is going to attempt an analysis of this kind one should not take an arbitrary subset of the data such as the values for just England, Scotland and Wales on one specific day.

5 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

It is most assuredly not "misinformation".

This is a strawman. I did not describe these particular posts as misinformation indeed I conceded that they were evidence albeit of an incredibly weak kind.