Can Anyone Help With This?

[The_DADDY]

8 minutes ago, Anna B said:

She's phoned several people including social care in the Town where her husband is, but people aren't getting back to her. It's now the weekend and things seem to close down over the weekend. She's been trying to get a face to face phone call through to him but struggles with tech. They say they'll help but he's asleep and they will do it when he's awake but then theyv'e forgotten. Say they're understaffed as some of the staff are off with covid.

This all sounds very shifty to me. Its as though they are deliberately hiding something. 

[S35_2o21]

On 24/11/2021 at 17:51, Anna B said:

Can anyone help with this?

 

I have a friend who is deperate  to see her husband who is in a care facility a 2 hour drive away from home, (it's a long story.) 

She has been denied access, because the home has an out break of Covid.

She has been tripple jabbed and her husband has also been tripple jabbed, but no joy. 

She delivered some things for him, but was denied access. However she caught a brief glimpse of him through a window and was shocked at the deterioration in his appearance, his weight loss, frailty and his general distress.

 

She was so disturbed she phoned around, and was told that legally people in care homes could have visits from one designated visitor.  So, armed with this information, she returned the next day, (another 2 hour trip) but was still refused admission and had to stand outside in the cold, on the grounds that 'this is a hospital, those rules don't apply to us.'  Her argument is that 'if it looks like a care home, and acts like a care home, it's a care home.' She was invited to a Zoom meeting by email to discuss his care but it's  in over a week's time, and she fears this might be too late. She also noticed that all the curtains were closed at 11.30am and one window was covered in brown paper and sellotape.

 

She has phoned since and has had trouble getting the phone answered, and when it has been answered she felt people were being very cagey. And the person she really wanted to speak to, the Manager, 'was in a meeting, but would phone her back.'   She didn't.

This has fuelled her distress, and she now feels that he's going to die, and she wants to get in there urgently. He's in a place a long way from home with strangers. She wants to remove him and bring him home.

 

I don't know if she's over reacting or what to tell her. I know there are some legal people on SF. What is her Legal position, and what should she do?

 

 

The Care Quality Commission (CQC) are the regulator for care homes and hospitals. Contact details are: https://www.cqc.org.uk/contact-us. The CQC will take calls from members of the public, so you could ring them but it may be better if your friend contacts them. 

 

Your friend could try the Adult Social Care Safeguarding (Google will have the phone number) team for the Local Authority where the home is- that could at least mean that this could be looked at. Particularly if there has been a recent decline. Maybe try the local GP surgery or which ever GP supports the care home (she might have to ring around neighbouring practices). 

 

Some care providers have been extremely cautious about visitors during COVID. Has the care home asked visitors to be have an LFT, or proof of a recent, negative PCR. This could be something your friend could offer. Could she offer a window visit, or has the home got provision to do a garden visit (not ideal due to the weather)?

 

As #3 has commented, relatives have got in to serious trouble by removing people from care homes. Does your friend have LPA for her partner? 

[tinfoilhat]

On 26/11/2021 at 13:06, Anna B said:

She's phoned several people including social care in the Town where her husband is, but people aren't getting back to her. It's now the weekend and things seem to close down over the weekend. She's been trying to get a face to face phone call through to him but struggles with tech. They say they'll help but he's asleep and they will do it when he's awake but then theyv'e forgotten. Say they're understaffed as some of the staff are off with covid.

Find another home. There's no law he has to stay there. Get him assessed from the new home and if he's sufficiently mobile, stick him in a cab and take him there - and pick one closer, why two hours away?

 

It's not a prison, she can take him out. And ring the CQC.

[Anna B]

10 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Find another home. There's no law he has to stay thee. Get him assessed from the new home and if he's sufficiently mobile, stick him in a cab and take him there - and pick one closer, why two hours away?

 

It's not a prison, she can take him out. And ring the CQC.

There is actually. You can't just take someone out of a home, you have to go through the right channels and they can take forever. She now has an advocate working for her, and even she isn't able to get into the home. The lady's husband now has covid so wouldn't be accepted in many places, funding has to be sorted out etc etc etc. Besides which she can't even physically get into the home  which is kept locked.

Remember last year that woman who took her mother out of her care home without permission  and ended up in jail for her trouble?

[tinfoilhat]

11 minutes ago, Anna B said:

There is actually. You can't just take someone out of a home, you have to go through the right channels and they can take forever. She now has an advocate working for her, and even she isn't able to get into the home. The lady's husband now has covid so wouldn't be accepted in many places, funding has to be sorted out etc etc etc. Besides which she can't even physically get into the home  which is kept locked.

Remember last year that woman who took her mother out of her care home without permission  and ended up in jail for her trouble?

Me and my mum shifted my dad without permission or blessing or anything. Social services were not involved - they didn't really care.  He'd been assessed by the new home during yet another hospital stay and we shifted him with a mobility taxi. 

 

The home he's in has zero say in this.  Covid throws a spanner in the works, and there's an argument there must be a place ready for him, but I reiterate, it's not a prison (unless he's sectioned). 

 

Ring round other homes and ask to speak to a manager there, they'll have a more up to date idea on how things are working now and if they'd take him.

[alchresearch]

17 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

Me and my mum shifted my dad without permission or blessing or anything. Social services were not involved - they didn't really care.  He'd been assessed by the new home during yet another hospital stay and we shifted him with a mobility taxi. 

 

Same with my nan when she was in a terrible home.

[Waldo]

Not sure it this would be of any immediate help (with sounds like she needs), but I'm wondering if there's any possibility the media would get involved with this story? This kind of thing needs exposure, and people need to be aware of what can happen when their loved ones go in to these places.

[Anna B]

23 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

Me and my mum shifted my dad without permission or blessing or anything. Social services were not involved - they didn't really care.  He'd been assessed by the new home during yet another hospital stay and we shifted him with a mobility taxi. 

 

The home he's in has zero say in this.  Covid throws a spanner in the works, and there's an argument there must be a place ready for him, but I reiterate, it's not a prison (unless he's sectioned). 

 

Ring round other homes and ask to speak to a manager there, they'll have a more up to date idea on how things are working now and if they'd take him.

It isn't a care home, it's a specialist hospital. The nearest place offering the same/similar treatments is Barnsley which has no available places. He's been waiting over 7 months for a place. However he isn't getting the treatment he needs anyway. It is excruciatingly expensive but funded by the Care Commisioning Group as part of continuing care plan. The CCG were supposed to be at a recent meeting to discuss the issues but didn't turn up. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Anna B

[ECCOnoob]

39 minutes ago, Anna B said:

It isn't a care home, it's a specialist hospital. The nearest place offering the same/similar treatments is Barnsley which has no available places. He's been waiting over 7 months for a place. However he isn't getting the treatment he needs anyway. It is excruciatingly expensive but funded by the Care Commisioning Group as part of continuing care plan. The CCG were supposed to be at a recent meeting to discuss the issues but didn't turn up. 

I feel crucial question which is not being properly addressed is what exactly is this care facility. 

 

You say in your first post that your friend's argument is that if it looks like a care home..... acts like a care home etc.....   but the Hospital itself is saying they are not a care home and therefore have different rules regarding visitation and access rights.

 

Now you are clarifying in this post that it is in fact a specialist hospital. The harsh fact, putting aside the emotive interest of your friend and obvious distress they are suffering,  is on this occasion the hospital might be in the right.

 

The facility may well have their own rights, controls and legal duties to protect their patients and legitimate grounds to be denying access at this time. 

 

 We are clearly not getting the full facts on here nor would I expect you to disclose someone's personal information- but it does make it very difficult for people to give any sort of  genuine advice when they don't know the circumstances and full context.

 

I really feel your friend needs to be seeking some form of proper independent advice  Getting random uncorroborated suggestions on the internet for something like this could cause more harm than good. Even more so when we don't know the full issues.

 

[tinfoilhat]

4 hours ago, Anna B said:

It isn't a care home, it's a specialist hospital. The nearest place offering the same/similar treatments is Barnsley which has no available places. He's been waiting over 7 months for a place. However he isn't getting the treatment he needs anyway. It is excruciatingly expensive but funded by the Care Commisioning Group as part of continuing care plan. The CCG were supposed to be at a recent meeting to discuss the issues but didn't turn up. 

That might be a different thing altogether - I know some dementia sufferers end up in secure hospitals because they can violent - I'm not saying its the case here, I just know it happens. If it's a secure hospital - for whatever reason - maybe get somebody else to assess his needs?

 

Covid - again - makes things harder. I wish you all best getting it sorted, it must be terrible for all concerned.