Sheffield City Centre - The Future

[sheffbag]

On 24/08/2022 at 20:06, LovePotion said:

Doesn't it strike you as strange, how all of these High Street staples omit Sheffield? No Giraffe, no Disney Store, no Edinburgh Woollen Mill, no Pret Á Manger, no Greenwood's, no Snappy Snaps.

Giraffe - There isnt one in Nottingham according to Giraffes own website. The only ones with Giraffes in the city centre in the whole UK is Bath and Leeds. So Manchester, Nottingham, Newcastle, Liverpool, Oxford, Cambridge, etc must all be poor cities for not having a Giraffe, yet Sheffield has one https://www.giraffe.net/find-a-giraffe

Disney - As pointed out Disney has closed all its UK stores bar London and did so last year. Bit out of date there

Edinburgh Wollen Mill? If you think that is a high street staple then go to any major city in the UK and see if you can find one. The only one realistically is in York that you could say is in a city. They tend to be in towns or outlets. There is a EWM just off the parkway at Boundary mill for your finest tweed skirts but i dont think you will find many of the city centre residents are its target market https://www.ewm.co.uk/store-finder

Pret A Manger - If you view a city centre on if it has a pret then really you are desperate. The one in Sheffield that closed was one of 30 that they shut due to the pandemic affecting sales and not recovering enough. 

Greenwoods - They went into administration in 2019. Of the stores that are still open you can find one in such major cities as Morecombe, St Helens and Burton on Trent. The Rotherham one was saved but thats closed down as well now.

Snappy Snaps? I got some straws for you to clutch at if you want. Snappy snaps has 6 stores within 100 miles of Sheffield in such major places like... Coventry and Peterborough. Im sure Manchester, leeds and Nottingham must be missing out tremendously just like Sheffield for not having a Snappy Snaps there https://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/stores

 

If they are your argument to say Sheffield is missing "high street staples" then you have no argument

Edited August 26, 2022 by sheffbag

[AndrewC]

On 24/08/2022 at 18:37, LovePotion said:

You don't see the correlation. Residential areas lose vibrancy.  It will effectively be a shrinking of the city centre. Your plan for Fargate to be taken over by flats will mean that it is less appealing to those visiting the city centre. Effectively, Sheffield City Centre would be condensed to just The Moor and The Peace Gardens. A shrinkage of that size could warrant the loss of city status. 

It's all about balance. And in that respect, no, residential areas do not 'lose vibrancy', as a rule. In fact most people say the opposite. Injecting more local residents in to an area can help build a critical mass of customers that allows businesses, shops, cafes etc to exist which wouldn't if they relied purely on shoppers or business people who by and large only stick around 9-5. 

 

Of course no area should be only residential - that by it's very definition would be an area devoid of activity & vibrancy - but that's not what we're talking about with city centre living, by and large. The best new developments always mix uses, usually the classic 'retail/hospitality ground floor, residential upper floors' mix. This allows for streets to have activity at ground floor, street level, and provide homes for people (and customers) above.

 

 

I think Sheffield actually has some good examples of how this can be done well, and badly. For me, the St Vincents area (basically the Upper Allen Street area between Broad Lane and Kelham Island) is a pretty drab, lifeless conglomeration of new-build flats with virtually no meaningful attempt at providing much space for local shops, cafes, etc. It has a host of residents but virtually no life at street level. Few shops, no cafes that I know of, or pubs. There's no local 'centre' either, save for the Tesco I guess.

 

If you look at Kelham Island or the Cultural Industries Quarters, conversely, they do a much better job at maintaining businesses, educational facilities, cafes, restaurants, bars, grocery shops, etc. at ground level, still with a many, many apartments above and around them. And the feel is completely different as a result; their not 'noisy' or busy areas by any stretch, but much more vibrant and diverse in their uses and activities, and very successful as inner-city neighbourhoods at that.

[redruby]

2 hours ago, sheffbag said:

Giraffe - There isnt one in Nottingham according to Giraffes own website. The only ones with Giraffes in the city centre in the whole UK is Bath and Leeds. So Manchester, Nottingham, Newcastle, Liverpool, Oxford, Cambridge, etc must all be poor cities for not having a Giraffe, yet Sheffield has one https://www.giraffe.net/find-a-giraffe

Disney - As pointed out Disney has closed all its UK stores bar London and did so last year. Bit out of date there

Edinburgh Wollen Mill? If you think that is a high street staple then go to any major city in the UK and see if you can find one. The only one realistically is in York that you could say is in a city. They tend to be in towns or outlets. There is a EWM just off the parkway at Boundary mill for your finest tweed skirts but i dont think you will find many of the city centre residents are its target market https://www.ewm.co.uk/store-finder

Pret A Manger - If you view a city centre on if it has a pret then really you are desperate. The one in Sheffield that closed was one of 30 that they shut due to the pandemic affecting sales and not recovering enough. 

Greenwoods - They went into administration in 2019. Of the stores that are still open you can find one in such major cities as Morecombe, St Helens and Burton on Trent. The Rotherham one was saved but thats closed down as well now.

Snappy Snaps? I got some straws for you to clutch at if you want. Snappy snaps has 6 stores within 100 miles of Sheffield in such major places like... Coventry and Peterborough. Im sure Manchester, leeds and Nottingham must be missing out tremendously just like Sheffield for not having a Snappy Snaps there https://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/stores

 

If they are your argument to say Sheffield is missing "high street staples" then you have no argument

I wouldn’t take that ‘argument’ too seriously….might as well argue that Sheffield city centre has lost its edge as it doesn’t have a Boyes / Jack Fultons / Muffin Break / M&Co / Quiz / any other chain that gone bust / downmarket chains / chains trading in small towns / those don’t have nationwide city centre chains etc etc.  

[hackey lad]

Been in town today , first time for a while . Walked behind City hall to Barkers Pool  . Bars and restaurants didnt look to bad , water features in Barkers Pool were disgusting , no water in the them , probably due to water shortage but they were absolutely filthy . Down Cambridge St to the Moor , not much on there at the moment but like the look of the building next to the new bank offices  , nice brickwork and they have kept the frontage on Pinstone St ,not sure about the fake plastic chimney stacks though . The new building next to it looks like a bog standard new build . Down the Moor , poor area . Still not reinstated the paving dug up for services for  Five Guys , patch of tarmac stands out like a sore thumb . Couple of decent buskers on the Moor .  Beggars  asked for money twice . Outside market , poor . One stall selling shoes took me back to the 70s/ 80s and Setts market . Moor Market loads of empty stalls , got a Ham hock and some pickling onions . Paid 3 quid for 2 cups of tea that was as weak as waz . I still think having all the  cafes in one area is a bad move .Back up Pinstone st  , Fair rides for kiddies in Peace Gardens. On to  Fargate  . Why do they need so many of those big ugly coloured  plantpots ( empty) ? Summer will be over soon . Had a look at the portakabins  , shocked by how small the scheme is , as opposed to the Artists  impression ,and would say a good few weeks before they will be open . Walked Chapel Walk very few shops open , a miserable place with doorway sleepers .Arundel Gate back to tram stop , dark and miserable . My good lady turned and said well thats it for a while and I couldn't agree more .

[Longcol]

On 24/08/2022 at 19:37, LovePotion said:

You don't see the correlation. Residential areas lose vibrancy.  It will effectively be a shrinking of the city centre. Your plan for Fargate to be taken over by flats will mean that it is less appealing to those visiting the city centre.

City centre living is the norm on the continent - hence they have a mixture of stores, shops, restaurants, bars etc with flats above them. Stayed in one in Dijon a couple of times on the main shopping street - yup, very vibrant.

[AndrewC]

On 26/08/2022 at 21:31, LovePotion said:

Are Wisewood, Grenoside, Base Green, Sothall vibrant? Nope they are rough as a BIC razor blade and not very nice places to be.

The argument you made (or at least my understanding of it) was that a city centre that increases the number of people living in it would lose it's vibrancy. It's clear from many cities in the UK and mainland Europe and a host of regeneration projects therein that the opposite is probably true, that an increase in local resident population is actually a very healthy way to improve the vibrancy of areas since it provides more reliable custom for shops, bars, restaurants etc. than just shoppers and office workers. In particular, a city like Sheffield with relatively weak retail & office sectors, inner-city living is actually a lifeline to many retailers & hospitality businesses, not just a happy bonus.

 

A balance of both residents and offices workers/shoppers from out of the city allows shops, bars, restaurants to thrive on reliable, all-day custom. This is played out in virtually every city across Europe & the UK, the evidence is clear to see. Ask what Manchester or Leeds would be like today without huge rises in inner-city living during the 21st century so far; probably still decent places but not a patch on what they are like today, and the vibrancy of their retail & hospitality sectors would be diminished.

 

The suburbs you keep mentioning as a counter-point; it's not an argument that makes sense? The suburbs are not the same as the city centre. Vibrancy in suburbs is something which is largely stymied, because people who choose to live there tend to want a quieter existence. It's not a place that large numbers of shops, bars, cafes are actually wanted. It lacks the balance I mention above, deliberately so. You can't just point at a house and say, "look - no vibrancy. See? I'm right"

 

 

Of course, there are times when these two arguments meet in the middle. Sometimes city centre residents complain about noise from bars etc., and you could claim this is an example of residents impacting vibrancy, but in truth this isn't actually something that happens anywhere near as much as people think it does.

[ormester]

I'm interested who will take the shops on pinstone street 

[Bargepole23]

I'll just leave this here...

 

https://planningapps.sheffield.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=RFPXTWNY0NH00

[redruby]

On 26/08/2022 at 21:31, LovePotion said:

Are Wisewood, Grenoside, Base Green, Sothall vibrant? Nope they are rough as a BIC razor blade and not very nice places to be.

Wisewood, Grenoside and Sothall aren’t the most obvious places to pick out from Sheffield as being ‘rough’.   I know they aren’t  Dore or Fulwood but they certainly aren’t Manor, Firth Park or Burngreave either!!

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by redruby

[Baron99]

On 30/08/2022 at 12:30, ormester said:

I'm interested who will take the shops on pinstone street 

I'm sure they're all being demolished to make way for the new Radisson Hotel on Pinstone St.