Another T Bone Rta At Meadowhead Junction!

[Chekhov]

On 20/01/2022 at 11:32, ab6262 said:

Just been past top of Greenhill avenue about half hour ago, 3 ambulances and paramedics plus 2 police cars, hope everyone ok , it looked serious but think most ok, might have been one stuck in car, where it was T Boned , why on earth hasnt this junction been sorted its the filter lane than crosses over onto Greenhill avenue .

i am sure a lot of drivers think this is light controlled and dont give way properly, it should be light controlled here as a lot of drivers dont understand the set up the oncoming traffic only has to stop if the pedestrian crossing is used.

seen at least 5 accidents here same reason, road planners have no idea and nor do some drivers! not be long before a fatality here.

Isn't that a 30mph limit area ?

So how could they have an accident that was so serious all those blue lights were needed ?

Unless there was some speeding going on ?

Sounds like they need a speed camera there !

[dave_the_m]

At the junction between Greenhill Ave and Greenhill main road, the speed limit is 40mph - the change between 30 and 40 is at the roundabout.

[Findlay]

1 hour ago, Resident said:

As a rebuttal I've seen drivers pull out of junctions & onto roundabouts at a snail's pace, giving drivers already in motion cause to brake.

As a cause of collisions, speed, whilst a factor, isn't the largest cause.  Driver attitude, inattention/recklessness is by far the biggest cause of collisions and the vast majority happen at or below the posted limit. 

Hardly a rebuttal, in this instance. Driving at the appropriate speed would give you time and space to see, anticipate and react to anyone dawdling . The new Highway Code rules coming into force at the end of the month puts a much greater emphasis on hazard perception and anticipation making drivers more responsible for their actions. 

[Guest busdriver1]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

Isn't that a 30mph limit area ?

So how could they have an accident that was so serious all those blue lights were needed ?

Unless there was some speeding going on ?

Sounds like they need a speed camera there !

A lot of damage can be done at 30mph, there is not  always a requirement for excessive speed. 30mph to 0 mph in 3 feet can be quite dramatic in effect.

1 minute ago, Findlay said:

The new Highway Code rules coming into force at the end of the month puts a much greater emphasis on hazard perception and anticipation making drivers more responsible for their actions. 

At the same time as removing said responsibility from SOME sections of road users.

[bassett one]

theres always chancers at junctions,add speeding traffic,result accidents

[ab6262]

On 20/01/2022 at 19:00, Jim Hardie said:

You’d have to be an idiot to mistake a green light in the form of an arrow indicating straight ahead for one that gives you right of way when turning right.

Have you actually seen this junction?? its not the ones going straight ahead that are at fault!! you have a give way surrounded by loads of traffic light posts with various lights in eyesight to those supposed to give way to oncoming, they can see a red in the corner of their eye on the left hand carriageway and immediately think he through traffic going the other is also on a red, hence they pull across and get T boned.

would make sense to have the give way light controlled and also the carriageway from lowedges to meadowhead roundabout light controlled also. problem solved.

[Jim Hardie]

35 minutes ago, ab6262 said:

Have you actually seen this junction?? its not the ones going straight ahead that are at fault!! you have a give way surrounded by loads of traffic light posts with various lights in eyesight to those supposed to give way to oncoming, they can see a red in the corner of their eye on the left hand carriageway and immediately think he through traffic going the other is also on a red, hence they pull across and get T boned.

would make sense to have the give way light controlled and also the carriageway from lowedges to meadowhead roundabout light controlled also. problem solved.

I know the junction very well and I’ve turned right down Greenhill Avenue dozens of times. I gave my theory for the T bones in Post 7. Where did I fault the ones going straight ahead?

[ab6262]

55 minutes ago, Jim Hardie said:

I know the junction very well and I’ve turned right down Greenhill Avenue dozens of times. I gave my theory for the T bones in Post 7. Where did I fault the ones going straight ahead?

ah sorry i missed that one

[DavidFrance]

The last few comments are way off the mark. The problem with this junction is not speed. It is the confusion caused by having a right turn lane off Greenhill Main Road into Greenhill Avenue which is NOT traffic signal controlled at the very point where there is a signal controlled pedestrian crossing. What looks to be a rational situation is then made worse for unfamilar drivers by the double band of white dashes indicating Give Way to right turning traffic. But the really stupid bit is that the crossing is split into two segments. So when the westbound traffic is held, the right turners see a red light and think the traffic coming from Bradway will stop....but they still have a green light !  A green light that the right turners cannot see !   Bang! That's the problem. It can be made worse if they are still doing 40 but usually the congestion ahead has them slowing down before the junction. If anyone has been prosecuted for causing a collision whilst turning right in these circumstances then they surely have a cast iron defence !   The simple answer is either to make the junction fully signal controlled (which would probably screw up the Meadowhead roundabout traffic) or -easier - to make the crossing one unified crossing so that all lights change at the same time and then, as a bonus put in a green arrow to co-incide with the red stop light on  the westbound carriageway. 

I won't bother repeating my driving and road safety credentials, the City Council engineers know it all !  (

If you want to see another of their questionable T/L junctions go to Gleadless Road/Daresbury Road where for no discernable reason straight ahead city bound traffic has to wait whilst right turners heading to East Bank Road get a "Go". and where every night out-bound traffic is allowed through in dribs and drabs of only three or four cars whilst Daresbury Road exits get a full minute of margin after the sensors have detected nothing).

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by DavidFrance
sentence added

[Planner1]

2 hours ago, DavidFrance said:

But the really stupid bit is that the crossing is split into two segments. So when the westbound traffic is held, the right turners see a red light and think the traffic coming from Bradway will stop....but they still have a green light !  A green light that the right turners cannot see !   Bang! That's the problem.

I understand that the signal operation has been changed and both sides go red at the same time.

2 hours ago, DavidFrance said:

 The simple answer is either to make the junction fully signal controlled (which would probably screw up the Meadowhead roundabout traffic)

That is correct. The Council's engineers modelled the effects of signalising it and the queues from the right turn went back to the roundabout, which is undesirable.