Not Convinced Gas Shortage Is Due To Demand.

[Dromedary]

2 minutes ago, Anna B said:

We should have kept control of our own Utilities, and maintained the means of producing our own power.

Most of that in the past was by using fossil fuels though and we now know what happened to that idea. Fossil fuels out and new tech in which needed time to implement.

 

2 minutes ago, Anna B said:

This situation was pretty much inevitable in the long term. We are an independent island.

Not really as like other countries we depend on other world resources to survive and function and have done for hundreds of years.

 

2 minutes ago, Anna B said:

We should be able to pull up the draw bridge in emergencies as we did in the war and carry on regardless. We have the technology now to sustain our independence, and should have kept the reserves we need.   

But we haven't and didn't.

[ECCOnoob]

3 hours ago, Anna B said:

I know what you mean. I don't trust anybody these days, especially the government. They don't tell you the half of it, and the other half is usually bullsh**

This all started with the financial crisis back in 2008. Nothing seems to have made sense since.

Really? I think you need to be looking deeper deeper back into history. I am talking centuries back.

 

You can't seriously be suggesting that distrust in political rulers, spin and misinformation has only developed as a result of those evil greedy bankers.... 

[ECCOnoob]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

We should have kept control of our own Utilities, and maintained the means of producing our own power. This situation was pretty much inevitable in the long term. We are an independent island. We should be able to pull up the draw bridge in emergencies as we did in the war and carry on regardless. We have the technology now to sustain our independence, and should have kept the reserves we need.   

Good grief, that's the sort of comment I would expect to see in the Daily Mail.

 

As for your comparators with wartime you are completely inaccurate. We relied upon on the the manpower and resources from our allies in countries all over the world. Even more so after wartime when we required vast amounts of help to get back on our feet.

 

We have always been a nation of imports. Even back in the dark days when we ruled with an 'empire' we still relied on raping and pillaging and stealing of land and finite resources from other nations which we would not have done ourselves.

 

Our Industries may have once been revolutionary but they never evolved. We were soon quickly overtaken by emerging and developing nations, with a far more leaner, keener and efficient workforce producing 5x the output while ours were plodding along, on strike or on yet another tea break.  At a time when men were being landed on the moon, we were still propping up a crumbling railway network of steam trains.  At a time when France and the Far East had a well-developed nuclear fusion and a network of power stations, we were still chucking out tons and tons of coal costing the taxpayers billions in losses a year. 

 

Regardless,we are now completely globalised both economically and politically. We may be leaving the EU but not Europe. We communicate across the other side of the planet instantly. We work with colleagues in multiple different time zones. We sit in offices or factories in the Far East, making products designed by people in North America and being paid by accountants based in London.

 

We're not even a proper island anymore.  A couple of hours train ride under the sea and you're straight into continental Europe without getting your feet wet.

 

Perhaps we should have invested more in our energy sector, other places around the world have, but I doubt for one second that remaining state controlled would give one jot of change the situation. In a country where morons in the unions are still whining and crying about 'evil thatcher' closing the coal mines and there are still politicians who even today are demanding that heavy mass nationalised industry of long outdated materials be reinstated, do you really think we would have self developed any sort of advanced manufacturing or green energy production without the hand private enterprise.....  not a chance.

Edited February 8, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[El Cid]

January 15, 2020 - Yet a report by the government-commissioned Electric Vehicles Energy Task Force says growing demand on electricity supplies caused by this increase needs to be properly managed by ministers and industry or else the national grid will be unable to cope.

It warns that growth in electric car use, together with greater reliance on heat fuelled by electricity, means the national grid needs to have the capacity to deal with increased demand over the next decade.

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/electric-car-surge-exclusive-power-cuts-national-grid-overload-386274

[Anna B]

30 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Good grief, that's the sort of comment I would expect to see in the Daily Mail.

 

As for your comparators with wartime you are completely inaccurate. We relied upon on the the manpower and resources from our allies in countries all over the world. Even more so after wartime when we required vast amounts of help to get back on our feet.

 

We have always been a nation of imports. Even back in the dark days when we ruled with an 'empire' we still relied on raping and pillaging and stealing of land and finite resources from other nations which we would not have done ourselves.

 

Our Industries may have once been revolutionary but they never evolved. We were soon quickly overtaken by emerging and developing nations, with a far more leaner, keener and efficient workforce producing 5x the output while ours were plodding along, on strike or on yet another tea break.  At a time when men were being landed on the moon, we were still propping up a crumbling railway network of steam trains.  At a time when France and the Far East had a well-developed nuclear fusion and a network of power stations, we were still chucking out tons and tons of coal costing the taxpayers billions in losses a year. 

 

Regardless,we are now completely globalised both economically and politically. We may be leaving the EU but not Europe. We communicate across the other side of the planet instantly. We work with colleagues in multiple different time zones. We sit in offices or factories in the Far East, making products designed by people in North America and being paid by accountants based in London.

 

We're not even a proper island anymore.  A couple of hours train ride under the sea and you're straight into continental Europe without getting your feet wet.

 

Perhaps we should have invested more in our energy sector, other places around the world have, but I doubt for one second that remaining state controlled would give one jot of change the situation. In a country where morons in the unions are still whining and crying about 'evil thatcher' closing the coal mines and there are still politicians who even today are demanding that heavy mass nationalised industry of long outdated materials be reinstated, do you really think we would have self developed any sort of advanced manufacturing or green energy production without the hand private enterprise.....  not a chance.

Yeah, alright I'll probably give you most of that one. It did read like the Daily Mail now I come to read it again.

 

However, I remember Forgemasters being refused the necessary to build some of the parts for a nuclear reactor (I think) Then China was commisioned to build said nuclear reactor. Now that idea's gone west because China is no longer regarded as the benign force it once was. As a result we are now years behind in the power generation stakes and power cuts are looming.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Anna B

[RollingJ]

19 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Yeah, alright I'll probably give you most of that one. It did read like the Daily Mail now I come to read it again.

 

However, I remember Forgemasters being refused the necessary to build some of the parts for a nuclear reactor (I think) Then China was commisioned to build said nuclear reactor. Now that idea's gone west because China is no longer regarded as the benign force it once was. As a result we are now years behind in the power generation stakes and power cuts are looming.

Anna, re: the highlighted bit. I don't recall that issue - any links? In any case SFL would not build any of the parts, they would cast/forge them to order from firms who would actually construct the facilities.

[Anna B]

23 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Anna, re: the highlighted bit. I don't recall that issue - any links? In any case SFL would not build any of the parts, they would cast/forge them to order from firms who would actually construct the facilities.

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/power-struggle-developing-the-uks-nuclear-manufacturing-capacity/

A quick Google found this from 2013. Forgemasters is mentioned about halfway down.

Not the link I'd hoped to find which was originally in the Sheffield Star. There was quite a furrore about it at the time as it would have ensured Forgemasters future, but the government refused the necesssary loan to set up manufacturing, so the contract went to China.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Anna B

[RollingJ]

23 minutes ago, Anna B said:

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/power-struggle-developing-the-uks-nuclear-manufacturing-capacity/

A quick Google found this from 2013. 

Not the link I'd hoped to find which was originally in the Sheffield Star. There was quite a furrore about it at the time as it would have ensured Forgemasters future, but the government refused the necesssary loan to set up manufacturing, so the contract went to China.

I was working at Forgemasters at the time, and I recall that they tried to obtain a grant/loan to upgrade the 10,000tonne press, but from what I heard internally - much more reliable than press reports - the request was turned down as it could have, repeat could have contravened EU state-support rules for private industry. And I repeat, Forgemasters didn't and don't build the reactors, they merely produce components.

 

EDIT: I suspect the 'Star' article was prior to the link you provided, which makes no reference to the loan refusal.

Edited February 8, 2022 by RollingJ
Added text

[El Cid]

10 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

I was working at Forgemasters at the time, and I recall that they tried to obtain a grant/loan to upgrade the 10,000tonne press, but from what I heard internally - much more reliable than press reports - the request was turned down as it could have, repeat could have contravened EU state-support rules for private industry. And I repeat, Forgemasters didn't and don't build the reactors, they merely produce components.

This is what Wikipedia says -

 

In the late-2000s, Forgemasters made a failed attempt to acquire a 15,000 tonne forging press for manufacturing ultra-large civil nuclear components. In March 2010, the company had secured £140 million in funding over two years, including an £80 million loan from the British government. Plans to acquire the press were ultimately suspended. The government loan was cancelled in June 2010 with a change of government. Forgemasters declined to apply for a new loan in 2011 as foreign competitors were building such presses, and the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster had caused uncertainty in the civil nuclear market.

[RollingJ]

Thanks for that information, @El Cid. My memory isn't as good as it was, so I could be mixing plans up. I seem to remember that at the time, there were 'environmental' issues around the proposals as it 'would have disturbed nearby residents with the noise' and also there were other issues, including the length of any 'inquiries'/assessments on the local environment. Not all of this obviously made its way into the media.