Not Convinced Gas Shortage Is Due To Demand.

[Delbow]

10 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Well that's exactly what you'd expect from a Tory government. The People just don't count with them.

It's just another example of the better things we could have if we had better governments.

[Janus]

I can imagine that gas prices are high in many places.

 

However, regarding France and the electricity, right or wrong I imagine the country to be well established with nuclear generators. I only think that because they build them plants for others.

[Delbow]

14 minutes ago, Janus said:

I can imagine that gas prices are high in many places.

 

However, regarding France and the electricity, right or wrong I imagine the country to be well established with nuclear generators. I only think that because they build them plants for others.

I think that is a factor and that causes a lot of problems further down the line (100,000 years down the line in fact) with safe storage of waste. But it seems clear that if the state is the one buying gas, then the state can control the price to the end consumer if the price spikes upwards, spreading the cost through general taxation. No such option in the land of privatised utilities.

[Anna B]

2 hours ago, Delbow said:

It's just another example of the better things we could have if we had better governments.

Oh I so agree. But how do we get better governments? 

[ads36]

push for PR.

 

right now, our system forces us to pick a side.

 

whichever side you pick, we lurch from 12ish years of the 'other' side ruining everything, followed by 12ish years of 'your' side trying to fix it. repeat, repeat, repeat.

 

this is no way to run a village fete, never mind a country.

 

PR forces the parties to work together, building on areas where they agree. FPTP forces them to argue over the correct end of a toothpick.

Edited February 9, 2022 by ads36

[Delbow]

21 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Oh I so agree. But how do we get better governments? 

Perhaps we also need to reverse this weird psychology that seems prevalent, particularly in England, where good things have come to be seen as bad. Housing for everyone? Terrible idea. Rights at work? For losers. Good public transport that gets you where you need to be fairly cheaply? Not for us, thanks. World class eduction? Who needs it. The list goes on and on.

[Dromedary]

4 hours ago, Delbow said:

If the price has gone up 12.6% that is a lot less than the 54% in the UK. And if the rise for the end consumer is 4% that suggests the state has absorbed the rest of the increase, presumably through general taxation. Very different to what the UK government has done, which is protect the profits of the private power companies and give a small rebate from council tax, which is a regressive form of taxation in the first place. In short, the French government have done a huge amount more to protect the average person than the UK government has.

The government do not set the price cap that is the task of Ofgem who are not government controlled and that is why many gas suppliers have gone out of business over the past several months as they tried to offer cheaper gas and got caught out in a sudden demand and price hike. As stated before natural gas is traded on the futures market and it is that which determines how much the wholesale price will be. Those prices are determined mainly by supply and demand and availability and not the government. Nearly all the countries in the EU that rely on natural gas are seeing the same sort of price hikes so it not just the UK or down to the UK government.

 

BTW the French state has not absorbed any increase as that is yet to be determined as its predicted that wholesale gas prices will drop further anyway. The average cost of gas in the UK is now around .07p and in the EU its around 0.65p so there is now very little difference in pricing. When you factor in the difference in VAT then its almost the same. Saying there has been a 54% increase in gas prices in the UK while true does not take into account that gas in the UK was around half of the average cost in the EU before the wholesale prices increased. The average cost of gas in the EU has always been more expensive than the UK.

[ECCOnoob]

3 hours ago, Delbow said:

Perhaps we also need to reverse this weird psychology that seems prevalent, particularly in England, where good things have come to be seen as bad. Housing for everyone? Terrible idea. Rights at work? For losers. Good public transport that gets you where you need to be fairly cheaply? Not for us, thanks. World class eduction? Who needs it. The list goes on and on.

Yeah yeah... just as much as we need to reverse  the other 'wierd psychology' amongst some of the more deluded members of the population who think they can demand all and anything they want - when they want it - without any consequences because magical fairies create it all and it's paid for by pixie dust.   It's the same ones who think it's always somebody else's responsibility to pay for their lifestyles. Always someone else's responsibility to pay for their neglect and abuse of their own health. Always someone else's responsibility to pick up the pieces when they irresponsibly breed a child without stable relationship or appropriate means ..... The same ones who think the the solution to any problem is simply "tax the rich" or "blame the bankers".

 

It's not a simple as just dismissing sceptics as people treating good things "as bad". It is far far more nuanced than that with much consideration of how exactly all those good things can realistically and practically be implemented. Take public transport for example, there are 1000 and 1 definitions of what is deemed good service and the basic principle that the more service provided = more expenditure to run it. So where is the balance that needs to be applied?  Who picks up the surplus to cover if there is unreasonable  discounting of fares?

 

Sceptics are more than entitled to be sceptical and realists are more than entitled to slap some hard dose of reality if and when other factions start bordering on pipedreams, excess and delusion.

Edited February 9, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[Delbow]

2 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Yeah yeah... just as much as we need to reverse  the other 'wierd psychology' amongst some of the more deluded members of the population who think they can demand all and anything they want - when they want it - without any consequences because magical fairies create it all and it's paid for by pixie dust.   It's the same ones who think it's always somebody else's responsibility to pay for their lifestyles. Always someone else's responsibility to pay for their neglect and abuse of their own health. Always someone else's responsibility to pick up the pieces when they irresponsibly breed a child without stable relationship or appropriate means ..... The same ones who think the the solution to any problem is simply "tax the rich" or "blame the bankers".

 

It's not a simple as just dismissing sceptics as people treating good things "as bad". It is far far more nuanced than that with much consideration of how exactly all those good things can realistically and practically be implemented. Take public transport for example, there are 1000 and 1 definitions of what is deemed good service and the basic principle that the more service provided = more expenditure to run it. So where is the balance that needs to be applied?  Who picks up the surplus to cover if there is unreasonable  discounting of fares?

 

Sceptics are more than entitled to be sceptical and realists are more than entitled to slap some hard dose of reality if and when other factions start bordering on pipedreams, excess and delusion.

Pipedreams that are reality or close to reality in other countries. In other words not pipe dreams at all.