Ukraine: Invasion Imminent?

[hauxwell]

Just caught something on the news that several ballistic missiles have been launched from Iran and they have struck northern  Iraq.    Iran was targeting some secret Israeli bases.

Would this have happened if there wasn’t a war going on with Russia and Ukraine?

[Dromedary]

14 minutes ago, hauxwell said:

Just caught something on the news that several ballistic missiles have been launched from Iran and they have struck northern  Iraq.    Iran was targeting some secret Israeli bases.

According to the news it wasn't and its reported to be a response to an Israeli strike 2 days earlier near Damascus that killed 2 members of Iran's revolutionary guard. There are no Israeli bases in Iraq either.

 

14 minutes ago, hauxwell said:

Would this have happened if there wasn’t a war going on with Russia and Ukraine?

Yes as it was a retaliatory strike.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Dromedary

[harvey19]

1 hour ago, melthebell said:

Not just armed conflict, ever hear the term a war of minds? A war of ideals?

When there is a real conflict going on where there are casualties and destruction that is war.

I am referring to the real meaning of war not a sensational phrase.

 

[L00b]

2 hours ago, Chekhov said:

You appear to be saying a bully should be given whatever he wants.

No, it's up to the Ukrainians if they want to fight and if they do we should give them every support possible, for as long as they want it.

^this^.

 

Russia has been waging an ideological war with the West for years. Putin and his rubles are all over western democracies, buying destabilising influence through political donations, paid-for editorial (The Telegraph, estimated £5-10m, in today's news) and media space (RIA, Russia Today, Sputnik, GB News) for years and longer.

 

The war in Ukraine was supposed to be another Georgia or Crimea -like walkover. Massive geopolitical mistake by Putin and his dysfunctional system. It will be their Vietnam instead. To all intents and purposes, with the scale of material and military losses, it already is. When was the last time you read about three 2-star generals getting killed by sniper fire? Within 14 days of conflict?

 

The West should continue to do absolutely everything that it possibly can to fight Ukraine's corner, for as long as it take, for however much it costs. Russia can pay for it all when it eventually grows up, shuts up and sits down.

 

Given the volume of weapons supplies to Ukraine, this is to all intents and purposes a proxy war by now, and Russian is already hurting real bad from it. To the point that Putin threatened civilian flights outside Ukraine, likewise military/NATO supply routes into Ukraine. Today's missile into the Ukrainian military base 6 miles from the Polish border can be seen as a warning shot in that context. But short of NATO firing into Russia -reciprocally Russia firing into NATO countries- anything should go, as Ukraine is "neutral" fighting territory between both, no more Russia's to own than NATO's or the UN's.

 

It is a sovereign country with a democratically-elected president and parliament, and if the executive and legislative says as one voice that they're continuing to fight, then that is their sovereign right, and decision.

 

Putin also wants to be real careful faffing about near Poland like that. Because you've seen Ukrainians so far...but Poles? They hate Putin and his system viscerally and -nukes or no nukes- one little slap and they'll be in there.

 

Russians killed an American New York Times reporter this afternoon, grievously wounding another. Both were travelling in a civilian car marked 'press', a Russian tank or BMP just opened up on the car without any warning. By the way.

Edited March 13, 2022 by L00b

[harvey19]

15 minutes ago, L00b said:

^this^.

 

Russia has been waging an ideological war with the West for years. Putin and his rubles are all over western democracies, buying destabilising influence through political donations, paid-for editorial (The Telegraph, estimated £5-10m, in today's news) and media space (RIA, Russia Today, Sputnik) for years and longer.

 

The war in Ukraine was supposed to be another Georgia or Crimea -like walkover. Massive geopolitical mistake by Putin and his dysfunctional system. It will be their Vietnam instead. To all intents and purposes, with the scale of material and military losses, it already is. When was the last time you read about three 2-star generals getting killed by sniper fire? Within 14 days of conflict?

 

The West should do absolutely everything that it possibly can to fight Ukraine's corner, for as long as it take, for however much it costs.

 

Given the volume of weapons supplies to Ukraine, it is to all intents and purposes fully into a proxy war by now, and Russian is hurting real bad from it. To the point that Putin threatened civilian flights outside Ukraine, likewise military/NATO supply routes into Ukraine. Today's missile into the Ukrainian military base 6 miles from the Polish border can be seen as a warning shot in that context. But short of NATO firing into Russia -reciprocally Russia firing into NATO countries- anything should go, as Ukraine is "neutral" fighting territory between both, no more Russia's to win and own than NATO's.

 

Putin wants to be real careful faffing about near Poland like that. Because you've seen Ukrainians so far...but Poles? They hate Putin and his system viscerally and -nukes or no nukes- one little slap and they'll be in there.

 

Russians killed an American New York Times reporter this afternoon, grievously wounding another. Both were travelling in a civilian car marked 'press', a Russian tank or BMP just opened up on the car without any warning. By the way.

Could you clarify a couple of points please ?

You say the West should do absolutely everything that it possibly can to fight Ukraine's corer for as long as it takes, for however much it costs.

What would be the limit to this ?

Who is delivering the weapon supplies to Ukraine and who is teaching them how to use them ?

Edited March 13, 2022 by harvey19

[cgksheff]

19 minutes ago, L00b said:

................

..............

 

Russians killed an American New York Times reporter this afternoon, grievously wounding another. Both were travelling in a civilian car marked 'press', a Russian tank or BMP just opened up on the car without any warning. By the way.

I haven't seen anything to say that the car was marked.
Not that anything justifies the Russians attacking a civilian car!!!
Apparently a Ukrainian police officer at the checkpoint filmed the incident. It could be revealing.

Edited March 13, 2022 by cgksheff

[crookesey]

I’m not liking the hatred for everything Russian that has eclipsed the real target, Putin is writing his name in the history books, irrespective of how much blood it takes.

[Dromedary]

20 minutes ago, L00b said:

.....Today's missile into the Ukrainian military base 6 miles from the Polish border can be seen as a warning shot in that context.....

That seems to change a lot depending on where you read it and to make it sound worse that it already is for that media effect. The base is around 15 miles from the Polish border and not 6 miles.

[Anna B]

The media has a responsibility to report accurately and responsibly so they don't inflate this conflict into something else. 

We already have a huge problem with propaganda, fake news, and misinformation which is now another weapon of war.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Anna B

[L00b]

1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

Could you clarify a couple of points please ?

You say the West should do absolutely everything that it possibly can to fight Ukraine's corer for as long as it takes, for however much it costs.

What would be the limit to this ?

Who is delivering the weapon supplies to Ukraine and who is teaching them how to use them ?

The limit is obvious: a wider conflict beyond Ukraine’s borders.

 

Everybody and their pet dog is delivering weapon supplies to Ukraine these days.

 

Ukrainians were taught about western weapons (Javelin, NLAW, B2, etc.) by the west (US, UK, Turkey, others). Ukraine are a potent and well-trained army in their own right, western weapons are proving quite a force multiplier.

 

There are a lot more people than Russian army staff taking notice, rest assured. Who needs £30+m MBTs when, evidently, they last all of 2 mins on the modern battlefield with modern ATGMs worth pennies in comparison? 

1 hour ago, cgksheff said:

I haven't seen anything to say that the car was marked.
Not that anything justifies the Russians attacking a civilian car!!!
Apparently a Ukrainian police officer at the checkpoint filmed the incident. It could be revealing.

I’ve seen a couple of videos of civilian cars shot up by Russian BMPs in the past few days.
 

I haven’t seen this one, and have no particular wish to.

But I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if it follows the pattern of the other two. Car’s trundling along, comes across the BMP at/near a junction, car stops and idles. BMP turret pivots, fire a few rounds straight into it. And for a soft target like a Hyundai or whatnot, that’s all it takes.

Same story for the widely-circulated vid of the man, son and dogs shot up by Russian soldiers on a country road. SUV trundles along, son spots soldiers in the distance, tells his to stop, SUV stops and idles, maybe 5-7 seconds and then the tracers come in. I’ll not describe the rest.

 

Horrible. Don’t look for it.

56 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

That seems to change a lot depending on where you read it and to make it sound worse that it already is for that media effect. The base is around 15 miles from the Polish border and not 6 miles.

I don’t believe 6 or 15 miles is worth a debate, tbh, “media effect” or not.

 

People get the point of the incident or they don’t, that’s up to them.

Edited March 13, 2022 by L00b