Ukraine: Invasion Imminent?

[L00b]

2 hours ago, Jim117 said:

Yeah this. Remember when the border guards abandoned the Berlin Wall because they hadn’t been paid? Every burnt out truck, smashed up tank or downed aircraft littering Ukraine is one less for Putin to threaten the world with, let’s make sure he can’t afford to replace them. We should help rebuild Ukraine and let Russia stew in poverty for a few decades until they learn to play nicely with others. 

I disagree (mildly) with that bit in bold. We don’t want a “Treaty of Versailles” repeat, fostering enmity across a generation or two. That way lies still more strife down the years/decades.

 

If Russia can start cleaning up its act like Ukraine started doing in 2014, there’s no reason we shouldn’t welcome it and help it progress as a fledgling democracy (a true one, this time). If it wants that help at all - that should be up to them anyway.

 

I may be very opinionated, vehement even, against Putin and “Putin’s Russia” right now, but I recognise well, and keep in mind, that there is a sizeable volume of Russians very unhappy at how things have been going, and are currently developing, in their own country. But they must help themselves first, before expecting help from others.

Edited March 14, 2022 by L00b

[hauxwell]

50 minutes ago, Jim117 said:

China is between a rock and a hard place with their new buddies and they certainly don’t want the sanctions Russia has got. I agree we should cut our reliance on China’s imports but it will be hard work. I recently started closely examining packaging on goods and it’s amazing just how much comes from China. My lad recently bought a decent socket set from a well known brand. The packaging listed a business park in the UK, a parent company in mainland Europe then in the small print “Made in China “. Even the Covid test kits in our house are made there so it will be hard work to wean ourselves off our addiction to cheap Chinese imports.

Also the fact that their Hind helicopter gunships were getting shot down by western supplied Stingers just as they are now.

I’m not an economist but I’m sure government could produce more goods in this country.  As you say it will be hard work but it can be done. 
 

[Jim117]

15 minutes ago, L00b said:

I disagree (mildly) with that bit in bold. We don’t want a “Treaty of Versailles” repeat, fostering enmity across a generation or two. That way lies still more strife down the years/decades.

 

If Russia can start cleaning up its act like Ukraine started doing in 2014, there’s no reason we shouldn’t welcome it and help it progress as a fledgling democracy (a true one, this time). If it wants that help at all - that should be up to them anyway.

 

I may be very opinionated, vehement even, against Putin and “Putin’s Russia” right now, but I recognise well, and keep in mind, that there is a sizeable volume of Russians very unhappy at how things have been going, and are currently developing, in their own country. But they must help themselves first, before expecting help from others.

Fair point. Tbh I’m bloody sick of Russia being a problem for my entire life. I thought we were done with this crap with the demise of the Soviet Union but here we are again. One way or another Russia needs to belt up. One bullet would be a good start. Failing that Putin should be shuffled off to a retirement home with some old maps and a couple of boxes of Airfix soldiers to play with. Nurse Ratchet on hand with the happy pills.

[cressida]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-tren

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has triggered a wave of falsehoods on social media and the airwaves. In a new Radio 4 podcast series, War on Truth, our specialist reporter follows the stories of people caught up by misinformation - and gives some tips about how to avoid it.

 

ding-60654288

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by cressida

[Anna B]

27 minutes ago, hauxwell said:

I’m not an economist but I’m sure government could produce more goods in this country.  As you say it will be hard work but it can be done. 
 

Indeed we could, but we moved over to a 'service' economy under Thatcher. And we have contracts with several other countries to import their goods, so that our ability to produce goods ourselves has diminished. All part of being a 'Global Economy' which is now beginning to show up the flaws in the arrangement.

 

But I've always thought it made more sense as an island country to be as self-sufficient as possible.

 

 

[hauxwell]

3 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Indeed we could, but we moved over to a 'service' economy under Thatcher. And we have contracts with several other countries to import their goods, so that our ability to produce goods ourselves has diminished. All part of being a 'Global Economy' which is now beginning to show up the flaws in the arrangement.

 

But I've always thought it made more sense as an island country to be as self-sufficient as possible.

 

 

I’m not expecting miracles overnight  but I also think we need to be a little bit more self sufficient in goods and agriculture where possible.

 

 

 

[crookesey]

5 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Indeed we could, but we moved over to a 'service' economy under Thatcher. And we have contracts with several other countries to import their goods, so that our ability to produce goods ourselves has diminished. All part of being a 'Global Economy' which is now beginning to show up the flaws in the arrangement.

 

But I've always thought it made more sense as an island country to be as self-sufficient as possible.

 

 

With a Public Sector the size of ours your wishes are an impossibility.

[Guest makapaka]

21 hours ago, Dromedary said:

very much doubt that scenario and think that is just negative thinking.

 

Putin wants to reclaim and rebuild not destroy completely by using Nukes as that way no one wins.

So what happens when he is prevented from doing so - and the crushing sanctions and exclusion from the rest of the world cripples Russia’s economy and bankrupts them.

 

what is he gonna do then - say “sorry about that  can I have my ball back please? “

39 minutes ago, cressida said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-tren

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has triggered a wave of falsehoods on social media and the airwaves. In a new Radio 4 podcast series, War on Truth, our specialist reporter follows the stories of people caught up by misinformation - and gives some tips about how to avoid it.

 

ding-60654288

 

 

Irony alert from bbc here. 
 

 

[crazyhorse]

25 minutes ago, hauxwell said:

I’m not expecting miracles overnight  but I also think we need to be a little bit more self sufficient in goods and agriculture where possible.

 

 

 

It is impossible to totally avoid Chinese made stuff...but there are still many things made in the UK, America and Europe if you want to try and avoid China as much as you can.

Spent an hour looking at precision screwdrivers the other day...and went for the German made ones, although they were twice the price.

I like Germany and they like us.

Not the only thing I have got from Germany recently either. They seem good for tools, washing machines etc.

Also Taiwan is a better bet than China...at least Taiwan is a democracy and aligned with the West.

Having said that we do still make good stuff in the UK as well.

If you hunt around, you would be surprised how much stuff we still make.

A fair bit of the stuff on my bike is manufactured over in Lancashire for example.

Not sure where the aluminium comes from...but it does at least support some UK manufacturing jobs.

[Anna B]

29 minutes ago, crookesey said:

With a Public Sector the size of ours your wishes are an impossibility.

Our 'Public sector' is being rolled back considerably, and we are all the poorer for it.  

However that doesn't mean that I don't think the money (our taxes) couldn't be much better spent. Our taxes continue to increase yet we seem to get less and less for it. 

'Value for money' seems to be an alien concept.