Ukraine: Invasion Imminent?

[melthebell]

On the flipside, this video just popped up on my youtube, you cant imagine how these sanctions are going to hurt average people

 

 

[L00b]

40 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

Unfortunately in war the civilians are just collateral damage.

When they are not deliberately targeted.
 

But that is not what is happening in Ukraine, is it?

 

Quote

Dominik Stillhart, director of operations for the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), has been speaking with BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

 
Asked what's gone wrong with so-called humanitarian corridors, he said they had been talking to both sides "for days", but problems remained confirming the detail of any ceasefire agreement - to allow civilians out of bombarded cities.

(…)

Illustrating his point, he said some ICRC staff had tried to get out of Mariupol along an agreed route on Sunday, but soon realised "the road indicated to them was actually mined".

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60635927?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6225c463980bea49f4b7b73c%26Evacuation route out of Mariupol was mined%2C Red Cross says%262022-03-07T08%3A47%3A05%2B00%3A00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:db771701-6dc4-4ec6-80c5-bf4be97ab054&pinned_post_asset_id=6225c463980bea49f4b7b73c&pinned_post_type=share

 

37 minutes ago, Waldo said:

That’s fine @L00b, are you saying you see no problem with the US meddling in the internal affairs of, and effecting regime change, in countries around the world?

 

For me, I’m just not of a mind where I have to apportion blame 100% in one camp or the other, such that the US are completely blameless and innocent here.

 

Regarding the video that Mafya posted, what specifically in it did you find objectionable?

You’ll have to point me to the post wherein I gave the US a pass on its own meddling.

Seems you can’t differentiate between interference and armed aggression.

Edited March 7, 2022 by L00b

[L00b]

3 hours ago, Padders said:

(…)

Can someone answer me a question,

Does either side take POW's or do they just kill one another.. just curious.

Going by social media reports over time (ones with video for evidence; but contrary to Geneva convention), Ukraine takes POWs, allows them 1 call to their relatives, gives wounded healthcare. Many such reports, including about downed Russian pilots.

 

Few reports from the Russian side, information is very tightly controlled (very numerous reports over last 7-8 days, of conscripts made to hand over their phones before shipping out to Ukraine). No reason to think that they don’t also take prisoners.

[Padders]

17 minutes ago, L00b said:

Going by social media reports over time (ones with video for evidence; but contrary to Geneva convention), Ukraine takes POWs, allows them 1 call to their relatives, gives wounded healthcare. Many such reports, including about downed Russian pilots.

 

Few reports from the Russian side, information is very tightly controlled (very numerous reports over last 7-8 days, of conscripts made to hand over their phones before shipping out to Ukraine). No reason to think that they don’t also take prisoners.

Thanks for that Loob 

[Waldo]

27 minutes ago, L00b said:

You’ll have to point me to the post wherein I gave the US a pass on its own meddling.

It’s the impression I formed on the basis of your response to other posts I’ve made.

 

As I’ve said before, it’s absolutely no excuse for Putin instigating the war, but it’s likely a factor. Quite possibly setting the conditions whereby Putin felt he had no other option, other than to invade.

 

If being apologist means trying to understand all the factors which contribute to a complex situation, then yes, guilty as charged your honor.

[L00b]

23 minutes ago, Waldo said:

(…)

 

As I’ve said before, it’s absolutely no excuse for Putin instigating the war, but it’s likely a factor. Quite possibly setting the conditions whereby Putin felt he had no other option, other than to invade.

 

(…)

 

Ukraine was no closer to gaining membership of NATO, or EU membership for that matter, last week than it had been for the last 2 to 3 years, nor would be for the next 2 to 3 years at the rate the country was cleaning its corrupted past. This attack has certainly accelerated the timetable however, assuming Ukraine can get out of the fight with sufficient independence still.

 

The web of evidence so far is that, far from having ‘no other option’, Putin felt this invasion  would be a cakewalk like Georgia, timed to exploit Biden’s and the West’s perceived feebleness, expecting that we would shout for a while but do little else. There is by now plenty of evidence, from captured invasion plans and documents, that this attack was long in the planning, months before Putin’s TV show of 2 weeks ago. 

 

It’s realpolitik miscalculation. To which Putin, by doubling and tripling down over the last week, is giving monstrous proportions, by now as much to the expense of his own people as that of Ukrainians.

 

 

The ‘factors’ ceased to matter entirely when Putin deliberately attacked the whole Ukraine. Russians support him to their peril.

Edited March 7, 2022 by L00b

[Waldo]

6 minutes ago, L00b said:

The factors ceased to matter entirely when Putin deliberately attacked the whole Ukraine. 

I agree, the factors absolutely don't matter in the sense of, we are where we are now, and we need to effectively deal with things as they are (not as they might have been).

 

They matter (if that's the right word) in the sense that, had the west managed it's relationship with Russia differently; not done what it did to pry Ukraine away from any Russian influence, then perhaps we wouldn't be in the situation we find ourselves in.

 

Did you watch the video? I'd appreciate your critique, if you think there's anything misleading or inaccurate in it?

 

 

[trastrick]

6 hours ago, crookesey said:

The Soviet Union is no more, it isn’t needed let alone wanted, something of the like of the current state of affairs in the Ukraine was just a matter of time. We allowed Hitler to do as he liked, until it was obvious that the U.K. and it’s Empire we’re on his ‘must have’ wish list. We then stood back post WW2 and allowed Stalin to do similar, we are now a weak satellite of the USA, that is run by a weak incompetent 79 year old, the Russians know how and when to pick their time.

 

The NATO nation members need to speak with one voice, and if necessary strike with a single fist, or do we wait for them to march into Poland?

 

NATO has spoken!

 

They said NO to Ukraine joining their little club.

 

They love their Russian natural gas.

 

Helps them try to meet their Paris Accord, global warming committments! Hey, look at us! We care about the planet!

 

Biden could blow up the damn Russian gas pipelines which are financing Putin's War. On our side of the border.

 

But Biden says:

 

White House knocks down talk of banning Russian oil imports

 

"Our objective and the president’s objective has been to maximize impact on President Putin and Russia while minimizing impact to us and our allies and partners," press secretary Jen Psaki said at a briefing with reporters.

 

"We don't have a strategic interest in reducing the global supply of energy and that would raise prices at the gas pump for the American people around the world because it would reduce the supply available,"

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/596752-white-house-knocks-down-talk-of-banning-russian-oil-imports

 

It'a all blind politics.

 

Lol

Edited March 7, 2022 by trastrick

[RJRB]

And pragmatism 

[trastrick]

On 04/03/2022 at 17:21, Dromedary said:

No, stay safe has been a term used a lot more simply because of the covid panic. 

It just replaced that other PC term used by strangers, "Have a nice day"! 

19 hours ago, Litotes said:

And once again you deflect the subject...

 

And are equally patronizing with your justification

"definition: patronizing: apparently kind or helpful but betraying a feeling of superiority; condescending."

But how's my spelling?