trastrick Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, Chekhov said: I don't think NATO should get involved in a direct fight with Russia unless they invade a NATO member country. But I think we should be giving the Ukrainians maximum support short of that : as many arms as they want, as much humanitarian aid as possible, and imposing the absolute maximum in economic sanctions regardless of the cost to us. We should be doing all this for altruistic reason but also for ourselves, Putin is mad and there is no telling what he'll do if he "wins". Ukraine is fighting for itself, but also for us. I can't see Ukraine winning a war against Russia. As I've said before, their only rational choice is to accept a negotiated settlement, basically a concession. The alternative is to continue a no win war, and let the bodies pile up. Those in the West like Biden, who are sending more guns to the Ukraine cannon fodder who are fighting a losing war against the West's mortal enemy, and urging them to fight to the death, are doing so from the comfort of their homes and mansions. Edited March 13, 2022 by trastrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 2 hours ago, cuttsie said: When a rat is cornered it will go for the throat . No they don't, they actually try jumping over your shoulder to get away, the throat thing is a phallacy 2 hours ago, harvey19 said: I was replying to post 1587 regarding the U.N. I can't agree with you that Russia is at war with the West. Russia is at war with Ukraine by the explanation that war is an extension of politics. Russia doesn't want ukraine to join western influences like NATO or the EU. They are at war with the West, they have always been against or opposite to the west Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bloke Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, melthebell said: No they don't, they actually try jumping over your shoulder to get away, the throat thing is a phallacy Errmmm... Sorry to interject here but... ... I think you mean 'fallacy', Mr Mel. 'The throat thing is a phallacy' is something I don't think we need to get into on a family forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxLady Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) Here's a poser for you. It's reported that Russia has attacked an airfield "near" the Polish border with Ukraine. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60717902 Russian forces are not noted for being particularly accurate - bothered? - about what they target, and there's always a possibility of a missile going "astray", or even fired "accidentally". Yes, it does happen. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-60711653 Here's the hypothetical bit... what if they'd attacked the airfield as above, and they'd hit something inside the Polish territory? What say NATO then? 1 hour ago, melthebell said: No they don't, they actually try jumping over your shoulder to get away, the throat thing is a phallacy I truly hope you mean "fallacy" ! * Sorry Mr.Bloke! Just noticed you'd beaten me to it! Edited March 13, 2022 by FoxLady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 hour ago, melthebell said: No they don't, they actually try jumping over your shoulder to get away, the throat thing is a phallacy Russia doesn't want ukraine to join western influences like NATO or the EU. They are at war with the West, they have always been against or opposite to the west War is an armed conflict. Russia is at war with Ukraine not the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chekhov Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 hour ago, trastrick said: I can't see Ukraine winning a war against Russia. I don't necessarily agree with you. The Ukrainian's are much more motivated and, thanks to the western countries military help, an almost inexhaustible supply of very advanced weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 hour ago, melthebell said: Russia doesn't want ukraine to join western influences like NATO or the EU. They are at war with the West, they have always been against or opposite to the west Ukraine was resonably secure and safe untill Russia invade Crimea, Ukraine was next on Putins list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chekhov Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 hour ago, trastrick said: As I've said before, their only rational choice is to accept a negotiated settlement, basically a concession. The alternative is to continue a no win war, and let the bodies pile up. Those in the West like Biden, who are sending more guns to the Ukraine cannon fodder who are fighting a losing war against the West's mortal enemy, and urging them to fight to the death, are doing so from the comfort of their homes and mansions. You appear to be saying a bully should be given whatever he wants. No, it's up to the Ukrainians if they want to fight and if they do we should give them every support possible, for as long as they want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dromedary Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, makapaka said: Do you mean nato? If so yes and we’ll all be brown bread in a few days. need to keep the sanctions on but offer putin a way out somehow - otherwise it’s only going one way. I very much doubt that scenario and think that is just negative thinking. Putin wants to reclaim and rebuild not destroy completely by using Nukes as that way no one wins. 30 minutes ago, harvey19 said: War is an armed conflict. Russia is at war with Ukraine not the West. I agree with that but it is being "bigged up" so much that the west are getting involved one way or another. Edited March 13, 2022 by Dromedary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 4 hours ago, harvey19 said: I was replying to post 1587 regarding the U.N. I can't agree with you that Russia is at war with the West. Russia is at war with Ukraine by the explanation that war is an extension of politics. Not just armed conflict, ever hear the term a war of minds? A war of ideals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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